Create-a-Servant

[RoydGolden]

Paracelcus vs Helena

Wouldn't this be better suited to Badass Versus?

[mewarmo990]

Whatever do you mean by that?

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Higashide: Achilles-san, the Ultra High-Spec Servant. The more mana he spends, the stronger he gets! He's absolutely strong! If he's summoned in Greece, he'd come with a Gold Cloth-like armor!
Konoe: His design codename was "Carrot Boy." Also, his master was "Mr. Pineapple." Rather silly, if I say so myself.
Higashide: This is the first I've heard of that!

Maybe wouldn't hurt to read up on official sheets and design notes if you're trying to associate your own characters with the canon. There's neat clues like this scattered around.

[Theoneandonlyz]

Whatever the hell First Magic is, the important thing here is according to Michelangelo's sheet he's going to end up with way more 'black marble' than he start with.

Which is what I found really funny, is probably unintentional, and is the sort of thing that skirts the edge of True Magic as something impossible to achieve.

Sure he could be just creating more through use of mana but the sheet specifically states the process as stacking 4 blocks together and somehow winding up with 64.

It's the sort of mountain hobo BS logic that I can imagine actually happening in the Nasuverse and that's hilarious

[Bird of Hermes]

Commentary Time

Peter Stumpp: I never heard of him so I had to look him up. The skills are very suitable and Black Magic adds a lot of flavour. As for the Noble Phantasm, it sounds more like a conceptual ability. Is it the belt that has the power? Or is it just the focus of the ability?

Michelangelo: I tried making this guy a few months ago but it didn't work out (like at all). And I must say you've done a good job. The skills have a nice twist to themselves. There's the Territory Creation. (Making something from nothing is something on the terms of True Magic.) The personal skills themselves are splendid and the Noble Phantasm that acts as a powerful Golem that mirrors how people think of it? Great stuff. In a story, this guy would probably act as the 'Mid-Tier Boss' likes Gilles or Heracles. I also got a kick with Leonardo da Vinci being his natural enemy.

Patroclus: Ah, Achilles boyfriend. Surprised there haven't been more sheets of him. His Bond of Brothers skill is like the Strong Arm that I gave to Ogier and Percival but at a higher rank and at a higher cost, so I'd reduce it to maybe A or B. And Unrelenting Spirit reminds me of the Relentless skill I gave Ferdiad. Not that these are bad things at all as the you've given him suit him quite well. Achilléa Panoplía fits the legend well but I fought his armour was invincible? Or is it just very tough? Pyrá Patróklou is an interesting twist on the legend.

[Altaris]

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Maybe wouldn't hurt to read up on official sheets and design notes if you're trying to associate your own characters with the canon. There's neat clues like this scattered around.

No more Saint Seiya !

[Bird of Hermes]

Class: Assassin
True Name: Diaochan
Alignment: True Neutral
Place of Origin: China

Strength- E
Endurance- E
Agility- B
Mana- D
Luck- C
NP- B

Height/Weight:168cm/60kg
Likes: Strong, quiet and respectful men of few words
Dislikes: Weak, loud and perverted men of many words
Talent: Turning allies against each other
Natural Enemy: Dong Zhou, Guan Yu

Class Skills:

• Presence Concealment (A) - The servant is able to completely conceal all traces of their own presence, including sounds, and smells, they are able to blend in with their surroundings that when moving slowly or standing still they appear to be completely invisible. They will lose their concealment completely the instant they make ready to attack.​

Personal Skills:

• Bardic Inspiration (B+) - Through stirring words or music together she can inspire others and grant them temporary bonuses. The power of these bonuses is directly linked to one's ability to perform. At this rank, one can inspire an entire army.
• Persuasion (B) - The talent to persuade others diplomatically and deceive through lies. A talented diplomat, she can manage all relationships in a favourable manner.
• Pheromone (A) - A skill for the alluring. Diaochan can give of pheromones that arouse others. At this rank, her entire visage gives of effects similar to those of Charm-type Mystic Eyes affecting those who are naturally attracted to females.

Noble Phantasm

Seven Star Dipper Triumph or Death (Anti-Unit) (B+) - A dagger that Cao Cao once used to try and assassinate the tyrant Dong Zhuo Dong Zhuo kept the dagger which Diaochan took after the tyrants death. A dagger with a Big Dipper constellation inscription in it that could cut through solid metal. Cao Cao was going to use it to cut through Dong Zhuo's protective armour and slain the tyrant, but as he was about to do it to the sleeping tyrant the blade reflected on a light and ended waking Dong Zhuo up who confused caught Cao Cao red-handed who then had to give the blade hoping it would distract him.
As it bestows the favour of heaven upon the user, it increases ones Luck. It possesses the legend of "Not failing to slay should it connect", so when activated, Diaochan changes the conditions of the battle into, "Chance Of Victory Or Death." This is Diaochan's last resort attack due to the fact there is a chance she may die in the upcoming altercation and although her fortune is enhanced, she is typically not willing to risk her life on a coin-toss.

Lore

Diao Chan was a dancing maiden who wanted to destroy Dong Zhuo. She infiltrated Dong Zhuo's army as a normal mistress and fought to gain the tyrant's trust. She did so begrudgingly, as Dong Zhou was hideously repulsive in both form and personality. She also appealed to Lu Bu, using his feelings for her to antagonize Dong Zhuo. She snuck around whispering sweet nothings and lies into heads of the two men she loved the most and hated the most. Planting evidence on each other until one snapped. She manipulated Lu Bu into killing his adopted father Lu Bu's prowess and fame preceded him so naturally she was scared of him - although she suppressed these feelings and hide them, however after he treated her kindly, she grew to respect him. Then love him.
After Dong Zhuo's death, Dong's former followers attack the Han capital city to avenge their lord. Lu Bu is defeated in battle and ordered her to flee.

Diaochan was captured by Cao Cao after the Battle of Xiapi. Cao Cao presented her to Guan Yu in the hope of winning Guan's loyalty. Guan Yu, however, suspects that he is being tricked when he recalls how Diaochan had betrayed Dong Zhuo and killed her to prevent her from doing further harm.

Diaochan is an elegant and patient woman who displays her cunning with her charms. Normally a kind and benevolent individual, she conceals her true feelings for the greater scheme. She does not enjoy violence yet finds that battle is inevitable in the times she lives in. A talented dancer and singer, she equates each encounter she fights as a dance. She despises Dong Zhuo more than any other in the world and although she was originally just manipulating Lu Bu, she grew to truly love him and is devoted to him. Her relationship with Lu Bu's daughter Li Linqui is… complicated.

She has a variety of things she could wish for. To be reunited with Lu Bu, to have a second shot at life, to be reincarnated and experience life to the full, murdering Dong Zhuo in every way imaginable… She'll make up her mind eventually.

[AsGryffynn]

Even in Spain, it's the pretty obscure Pelayo that's identified as the starter of the Reconquista.

Although TBH I'm OK with buffing the Cid because he's a major medieval epic character. And I'm a bit sick of King Arthur and his knights being the speshul ones. Him being as strong as a top tier Knight of the Round Table sounds about right. Having him be stronger than Arthur is uncalled for IMO, though.

My own Cid is somewhere in this thread if you want to check the powerlevel I felt comfortable with.

The obscurity is part of the reason why I made him stronger than him.

I felt he's either "Gilgamesh lite" or "Arthur lite". He's an unusual Saber that strikes fast and hard, but has very poor defensive capabilities. An "assault" servant, so to speak...

Well, analyzing this El Cid. And I have to agree with everyone that is very overpowered.

First, parameters.

I will only talk about physical parameters because well, Mana and Luck varies a lot between Servants of same class.

El Cid parameters: A/C/A+

Now, comparing with five Sabers I choose that are the closest to El Cid in the sense of "Big National Hero"

Arturia B/B/B
Nero D/D/A
Sieg B+/A/B
Atilla B/A/A
Caeser A/B/B

Most of them only have one A rank. Atilla being an exception, but it is two A and a B. Yours have one A, one C and one A+. Ok, you can say that the C compensate the +, but I don't think El Cid physical attributes should be much closer to Attila who is called King of Combat in the franchise. But well, also talking about that A+ in agility.

Looking most Servants with agility A+, most of them have a reason for it. Many of them are Assassin, and it is normally their only good parameter. Others are: Chiron (he was a centaur, he have to be fast), Kojiro (this guy learned how to cut a thing three times at same time by himself), Achilles (A demigod), Ushiwakamaru (he was trained by a Tengu as a kid, he was known by his agility). There are some exceptions, but I don't think he deserves an A+ agility.

Next, Class Skills Ranks:

Arturia A/B
Nero C/B
Sieg -/B
Atilla B/A
Caeser C/B

Your El Cid: A/A

I have to say, none of them have A on both (Arturia does in Zero, but in none of the others medias I guess). So his Magic Resistence would be in pair of Arturia, who have Dragon Blood (IIRC), and Riding in pair of Attila, the King of Combat.

Third, Number and Ranks of Personal Skills

Arturia B/A/A
Nero EX/B/-
Sieg C-
Atilla B/D/EX/B
Caeser B/C/EX/D

Your El Cid: B/EX/A/A+/A/EX

Ok, the first one is written "Rider only" so I will remove it.

EX/A/A+/A/EX

Only two of them have four class Skills. These two does have EX skills, but they have lower C and D skills as well. Your lowest skill was B as rider only. Without it, your lowest skill is A. None of them has only A personal skills, and not on that number of them. The ones with EX have no skill bigger than B. The only one with A skill have only 3, two of them being A.

And about individual Skills:

Servants with Charisma A+: Gilgamesh (A King of Mythological Times, the King of Heroes), Buddha himself, he created an entire Relligion that is the 3rd (or 4th, not sure) relligion in the world. Toyotomi Hideyoshi for some reasion has it, I don't think he is that charismatic, but I am sure that he have a Noble Phatasm that increase the ranks of skills with time, and this one is his highest rank. I don't think El Cid deserves A+ Charisma at all.

Servants with Pioneer of Stars EX: Francis Drake (the first person who circumnavigated the world), Leonardo da Vinci (he did a lot of things and it is considered one of the most briliant minds in the world), Nikola Tesla (he basically give us AC that is why we can have electric energy as easy as it is today). I don't think anything he did was more important than these three. I don't think he deserve this skill.

Servants with Golden Rule A: Gilgamesh (he has ALL treasures of the world), Edmond Dantes (he got a treasure that made he from a priosoner with nothing in a very very very rich nobleman), Hideyoshi has it too, I don't know why tho.

And next, Noble Phantasms.

Arturia EX/A++/C
Nero B/B
Sieg A+/B+
Attila A
Caeser B+

El Cid: A++/B+

It is kinda ok, but I don't think El Cid sword is on pair with Excalibur. Maybe swords like Joyeuse, Durendal, Kusanagi would deserve it. Neither Balmung who is a more famous sword has A++. So it should get a rank down. But yet, comparing with threse Sabers, his Noble Phantasms are superior to all of them, except Arturia because of Avalon, but sinceraly, she almost never use Avalon se we can say he has it better than her.

Sum of All:

You made a Servant that is stronger than Attila the Hun, quicker than Ushiwakamaru, Kojiro, Diarmuid and Chiron more Skilled than Julius Caeser, have stronger weapons than King Arthur, is more charismatic than Buddha, changed the world more than Tesla and da Vinci, and is as rich than Gilgamesh and Dantes.

Exceptions for some of them are acetable, but all of them, all the same time, is really really really overpowered. Even Hideyoshi that have two of these things, and can have really high stats due its Noble Phantasm, only manage to do it for some days and then start debuffing again.

I can make yet another tweak since you've provided me with enough information now...

you understand you just said "I'm not willing to change anything because everything I did it justified and you're all idiots for thinking otherwise."

Really now? I said "this is justified".

Sorry, but I never said anything of that sort when I clearly said "I will willingly make adjustments provided constructive criticisms" (for one, tell me why and how and I might work with that. If not, I can just leave this as an overpowered character I made out of boredom).

Charlemagne's grandfather and founder of the Carolingian dynasty.

Well, you learn something new everyday...

AsGryffynn

If you are so invested in creating a character that will gain widespread acceptance, steadfastly refusing to accept the critique of your supposedly target audience is a very counter intuitive and nonsensical way of doing so.

As for the question of Charisma, Armiger Regis, & Fireteam Assembly ~ please understand that Princess of Loveliness that you base Armiger Regis off of is a skill from G/O which is a electronic game with very limited format in how to execute its skills. In the game Charisma is specifically a party damage buff. In the wider format of the Fate universe Charisma is a function of leadership and how likeable or at least compelling a character is. In G/O Princess of Loveliness does what Charisma no longer do due to programing limits, which is to "cause a favorable character interaction"

For an example of what Charisma actually does, Iskandar was able to get Gilgamesh to at least humor him and a suspicious Artoria to sit down and have a civil (by which I mean no one literally went for each other's throats even when things got personal) discussion. Later he was able to coordinate well with several servants against a common foe and earn the grudging respect of Gilgamesh despite everyone still participating in open conflict with each other. A conflict that he ultimately died in.

Charisma is a tool that allows the character to perform these social feats. I still feel that the sort of interaction you wanted for Armiger Regis & Fireteam Assembly is something that can be developed in character using Charisma. The way I see Armiger Regis & Fireteam Assembly is that they are cheap plot devices that cheats the developments you want. Which is much less interesting than if you hero actually put in the effort of doing what his legend says he does.

Charisma B+ since he normally function at a national level. B+ for making working alliances which puts him ABOVE what Iskandar is capable of.

As for Riding. First of all your El Cid is a SABER. What does his possible stats as a RIDER have to do with anything? Different classes, different focus, and all that. You also accuse the rest of us for not looking at the rest of available servant samples when critiquing your sheet yet you claim to be ignorant of the fact that more than a few CANONICAL Saber class have Riding at B. Canonical examples. What were you looking at might I ask?

The part that mentions "A rank allows a servant to enter the Rider class". But with George, that seems to be more of a "qualifies even if they really weren't a mounted combatant".

For Tizona. This is just ugly. It prevents MULTIPLE other servants from using their ultimate techniques and still leaves Cid the option of blasting them without them having any sort of recourse to defend themselves. This is basically a naked "I win everything LOL" plot device that is neither interesting nor fair. Even Excalibur had limits what with its stupid windup, needing 2 hands, and high mana costs. Even then it's just a incredibly powerful attack that can be out run, out maneuvered, countered with another Phantasm.

Tizona is that and also prevents a functional defense or counter. What? A protagonist is interesting if he has to struggle to overcome difficulty. Going "LOL Nope Eat Fire" is not.

I say choose one effect or the other and lower its rank. Honestly I like the neutralize the enemy's ultimate technique effect better than the generic blast effect. Although I would not let it effect 3 targets simultaneously with one activation.

This is constructive. I point out the things that I feel is wrong, explain why it feels wrong, give a suggestion of how to make it not wrong from my perspective. If you still think I'm just baselessly being hostile than I don't know what I can do. Ignore your sheet maybe?

If you had an issue with me calling your sheet a monstrosity than I will apologize for that ill thought out turn of phrase.

Worry not. I accept your apology.

Now that I have seen you actually post reasoning behind your criticism, I can use that to nerf El Cid further. In a way, I think I now which method I have to use now...

Princess of Loveliness is it's own valid skill.

I feel this is true...

So I didn't get it wrong so much as I... said it weirdly?



Huh.. I've played CCC so I don't know how I missed/forgot that. Though if it's said in F/GO than maybe I'll be reading it soon, since I decided that I might as well actually play beyond the first few 'levels' before making a final judgement on it.



Well, this is less "he's making an El Cid Servant" and more "he wrote a story that had an extremely overpowered 'El Cid' in it and now he tried to turn that 'El Cid' into a Servant."

At least I think that's what happened. I don't know, I put AsGryffyn onto my Ignore list way back when they said they were incapable of making 'weak' characters. I knew I wouldn't like anything from them.

Not really. The original "reincarnated" El Cid was the kind of strong that could obliterate ORT. This one is an historical variant weakened to fit servant standards (and that I am willing to weaken even further to make it Fate compliant)...

And yeah. Sorry, but whenever I create characters, I usually use a main character from a story as reference.

Alright, on to one last fix. This one will see his stats normalized using a skill point system. This means I will use a servant that is a compromise (Jeanne d'Arc) and then use her stat points to work on how I want to use them for El Cid (Jeanne has around 250 points between parameters) so I will keep tabs on those. Since he's older, but she's more famous, these two work together pretty well and I believe they are on the same league.

[Desuclocker]

I also ranked down Ad Victoriam, since he's not attacking the Noble Phantasms themselves. I did increase his target limit, but now, it's not an "I win" button, but a "no combat area" mode that forces servants to duke it out with normal weaponry or magecraft, giving characters like Rider Medusa and Kojiro an edge, but rendering Archers like EMIYA and Gilgamesh powerless. Conversely, he can use River of Light for dealing with those instead, since he can't do anything against normal weaponry. I added that Ionioi Hetairoi counts because the marble itself is a Noble Phantasm, hence El Cid can collapse it the moment its summoned, but Rider will keep his sword and horse.

There is never going to be a Servant with seven separate Noble Phantasms. Also, if this guy appears in a war as a Saber, he'll completely shut down Caster (MR), Assassin (giving his Master Colada), Rider (the class reliant on NPs) and Archer (as per your own sheet), assemble a fireteam to murder Berserker and end up only having Lancer to fight without auto-winning, which his "spanish Excalibur" will carry him through regardless provided said Lancer is not Karna or someone like that. The guy is still ultra broken.

[Lily Emilio]

Still don't get why there is a freaking long list of his natural enemies. Either that you don't understand the word or thought it means "every ppl the guy hates".

[Bird of Hermes]

El Cid Commentary, round two.

Magic Resistance: I understand why Conlada increases it by a rank, but Ad Victoriam not so much. I'd say lower it to B. That was it is still equal to the likes of Gawain.

Fireteam Assembly: I see you really wanna keep this. Put more emphasis on the attempt side of it. Say something that 'The opposing servant will only join El Cid on a luck check with disadvantage to him. However should he fail the enemy servant will learn his identity and weaknesses.

Tizona/Ad Victoriam: Instead of "Stopping something being summoned" you could give it an ability such as "Dispellment of the trump card for a few seconds in order to land a decisive blow. However this can only be used on something once."

Tizona/River of Light: Tizona is closer to Excalibur Galatine, Photon-Ray and Balmung than Excalibur in terms of fame. Make it Anti-Army and at either A or A+ in rank. No higher.

Natural Enemy: Why so many? Honestly just one or two would do. You could just say 'Gilgamesh' or just Tyrants.

[Altaris]

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Why did you use Zhen Ji pic for Diao Chan though ... She has her own Dynasty design

[RoydGolden]

El Cid 3.0: Well, I see you took some of my criticisms to heart. Agility is still quite high since he's not a Lancer but I can accept that since his other stats are more reasonable. Also, you say that his rank in Magic Resistance comes from both swords but in fact only Colada has any reference to bolstering it. As Hermes said, just B should be enough. A-rank Magic Resistance should be really freaking rare, honestly.

Skill ranks have been lowered to saner levels. He no longer has Charisma and Golden Rule as high as Gilgamesh. Fireteam Assembly is still an... odd Skill that seems like it would better fit as something that happens naturally in a story rather then dictated by a stat sheet (Arturia teamed up with Diarmuid and Iskandar to take out Gilles, but she doesn't need a special Skill for that). Frankly I see you wanted to nerf him (justifiably) but he could easily have Pioneer Of The Stars at EX, given that we don't know anybody who has that Skill at anything other then EX.

I didn't really have a problem with his NPs to begin with so I won't say too much on this. Apparently you've nerfed Ad Victoriam? One thing I forgot to say the first time around is that the comparison to "Balmung and Excalibur" for River Of Light doesn't really work since Excalibur is like a million times more powerful then Balmung. I could see Cid having something at Balmung/Galatine level but not Excalibur. Remember, even Gawain, a very powerful knight of Camelot only had an A+ Anti-Army Noble Phantasm. A++/Anti-Fortress should be left to the few things that deserve said classification. Zulfiqar (middle Eastern Excalibur) and Ame-No-Murakumo would, Tizona.... eh, not quite.

Omnicidal Neutral still seems like a weird Alignment for El Cid (even knowing the explanation), and the Natural Enemy section is still needlessly bloated, but those are just minor critiques.

- - - Updated - - -

Essentially, nerf Magic Resistance to B and River Of Light to A+ Anti-Army and you're set.

[Bird of Hermes]

Why did you use Zhen Ji pic for Diao Chan though ... She has her own Dynasty design

Gah, got the images muddles. Anyone got anything on the actual sheet for Diaochan or is it fine?

[Theoneandonlyz]

I like the background you gave for Pioneer of the Stars & Golden Rule. They make more sense now. Don't see why Pioneer of the Stars can't be anything other than EX. Why Charisma is ranked B- is also a nice touch.

You're obviously attached to Fireteam Assembly & won't change your mind so no need to keep discussing that.

One thing though...what does Ad Victoriam do to passive always on phantasms like Gae Buidhe & Gae Dearg that needs no activation? Or just the basic forms of Excaliber, Balmung, etc. as slabs of metal Servants use to attack normally with? Does it prevents them from summoning just those as well?

- - - Updated - - -

Why did you use Zhen Ji pic for Diao Chan though ... She has her own Dynasty design

Actually that is Diao Chan's design from Dynasty Warriors 6

[AvengerEmiya]

Golem Keter Malkth is like A+.

So Il Divino probably don't need to be ranked that high. What are it's stats anyway?

Something like...

Strength: B

Endurance: B

Agility: D

Mana: D

Luck: ----

And I didn't think too deeply about the rank. A lot of NP ranks never made sense to me. Especially the ones with modifiers.

Can someone please explain the actual difference between a Clarent Blood Arthur with one + and a Clarent Blood Arthur with two?

[Theoneandonlyz]

Can someone please explain the actual difference between a Clarent Blood Arthur with one + and a Clarent Blood Arthur with two?

Clarent Blood Arthur as it was originally made was A+ anti-army.

The A++ is Grand Order giving it a arbitrary power boost after a player uses Mordred enough in order to keep them interested. A special treat for being such a good little boy/girl. It was never part of the original design.

G/O is a collectible game. Collectible games have different set of concerns from whatever the hell the Nasuverse franchise was before G/O.

[Mcjon01]

The A++ is Grand Order giving it a arbitrary power boost after a player uses Mordred enough in order to keep them interested. A special treat for being such a good little boy/girl. It was never part of the original design.

G/O is a collectible game. Collectible games have different set of concerns from whatever the hell the Nasuverse franchise was before G/O.

And it's all canon.

[Theoneandonlyz]

And it's all canon.

I'm not saying it's not. It's still terrible though.

You don't have to agree with me.

[Lily Emilio]

G/O is a collectible game. Collectible games have different set of concerns from whatever the hell the Nasuverse franchise was before G/O.

You made Nasu cry.

From the start of the planning phase, I thought, “FGO has to be this grand story where every single character from all the Fate/ series until now would show up, or else it would be pointless.” To put it extremely, “even if I die, I have to pass this on to the next person… Actually, I should just pour all of my wealth and assets into this” – that was how I felt, so I had to put in everything up until the core setting of the Fate/ universe. So I brought out the very first setting that I made way before Fate/stay night, the one that was supposed to be Fate/Prototype, and used it as the core of FGO.

I hope to get the people who think that FGO is just a fanservice game for the Fate/ franchise to feel that this is a cool game, that this is an honest-to-goodness Fate/ title.

[Altaris]

Nasu can wipes all his tears with all those Benjamin Franklin while playing Dark Soul 3