Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[castor212]

I legit wouldve accepted it much faster if somebody just point out that 認識宇宙 is a whole different thing than 観測宇宙, even if the description has similar elements
mm, feeling somewhat foolish now, sorry about that

[castor212]

Commuting for an hour gave me plenty of time to formulate thoughts

so to put things in summary
we have 3 universes

the universe of record

時間の概念の在り方が「記録される時間」である世界、もしくは視点のこと。
「記録される」とは、過去・現在・未来の三様が同時に知覚されていることを意味する。

The realm, or perspective, where concept of time exist as a "recorded time",
"Recorded time" in the meaning where the past, present, and future is being simultaneously perceived.

a domain where time is seen side by side, basically the domain of a higher being

the universe of observation,

時間の概念の在り方が「認識される時間」である世界、もしくは視点のこと。
「認識される」とは、過去・現在・未来の三様が同時に知覚されていないことを意味する。

The realm, or perspective, where concept of time exist as a "recognized time",
"Recognized time" in the meaning where the past, present, and future is NOT being simultaneously perceived.

a domain where time is seen NOT side by side. I just realized that, with wording specifically like that, this is the domain of anybody not really higher being. We were given example of humans recognizing time as a continuous line, but with it being said like that, any beings, so long as they dont perceive past present future simultaneously, exist in the universe of observation.

the universe of awareness,
a smaller domain that metaphysically encompasses and is limited by certain beings awareness of things; in the case of humans, its the Human Order
also where parallel worldlines modification is happening

I see what youre saying now, Mizukume; this would mean, or at least imply, that MoonCell, having its own QTL system, has a different universe of awareness than humans, but one that also intermingles with ours since MoonCell's activity is super closely related with humans'
And now that I think about it, it could just be that other universe of awareness has not different QTL schedule but also different QTL method, other than pruning and anchoring

Actually, I think this also means Nasu technically didnt lie after all. He did say in Extra mats that MoonCell took HS from its own record, but he wants to make an impression that MoonCell's record and human's record overlaps and basically the same. In Extella its said that MoonCell took HS from THrone of Heroes record, but if human's THrone of Heroes stems from human history and human's universe of awareness, and with MoonCell's activity has basically intermingle and assimilate with that of humans', this means that because MoonCell's universe of awareness and human's universe of awareness has intermingle so much, their records had becomes basically the same thing, which means actually same Throne as far as either humans or MoonCell's concerned.

THis just answered one of my long unanswered question.

And going waaay back to the original question, whether various timelines are a universal thing or a world thing, basically this means the answer is both, in that parallel universe is definitely a universal thing, but each world for each beings, aka each universe of awareness would put a different setting on their parallel worldlines

So with that said, could be other alien THrone of Heroes actually resides as the neighbour of humans' THrone of Heroes in the Outside of the World, doesnt intermingle because this speculative alien universe of awareness hasn't touch yet our universe of awareness
I also now wonder what happens when humans makes contact with aliens for real, civilization meets civilization, and their universe of awareness clashes
inb4 FGO part 3

[Lily Emilio]

a domain where time is seen side by side, basically the domain of a higher being

What if...the throne of heroes is a universe of records for the HS?

We were given example of humans recognizing time as a continuous line, but with it being said like that, any beings, so long as they dont perceive past present future simultaneously, exist in the universe of observation.

Yes. In Buddhism for example, the Buddhas have 3 bodies. The Nirmanakaya is the manifested body of Buddha within our world, our current spacetime, Saver is basically that and before he became the historical Buddha he has universe of awareness and universe of observation viewpoints. The Sambhogakaya is the blissful body. I would compare it to the gods in Nasuverse, the state that Kiara came very close to in CCC and at this state you gain universe of record viewpoint, you have your own realm (iirc the English term is Pure Land). Becoming Buddha, or moksha, or reach nirvana baically means you got this body. The Dharmakaya is the fundamental truth of the universe, represented by Dainichi Nyorai and boundless, limitless. That's why Dainichi Nyorai and Amaterasu was syncretized in Shingon cuz the great sun (metaphorical sun) shines across all worlds, all dimensions and reveals all truths or something along those lines. Doesn't really make sense to me 100% tbh but w/e, they just want to add Shinto gods to their temples lol. I think reaching Dharmakaya is kinda equivalent to reaching the Root and become one with it.

this would mean, or at least imply, that MoonCell, having its own QTL system, has a different universe of awareness than humans, but one that also intermingles with ours since MoonCell's activity is super closely related with humans'
And now that I think about it, it could just be that other universe of awareness has not different QTL schedule but also different QTL method, other than pruning and anchoring

A simple example would be the event of Velber attacking in 12000 BCE. It is a really bad event for the Velber, but clearly the turning point for mankind, so I bet it is QTLed. So what I assume happened is that after the event is QTLed, all scenarios with Velber winning was removed from humanity's universe of awareness to the universe of record. But if by chance those events of Velber winning are crucial to the advancement of the Velber Order or some shit, maybe those "pruned timelines for human order" could still exist in Velber's universe of awareness. So...Lostbelt???

Actually, I think this also means Nasu technically didnt lie after all. He did say in Extra mats that MoonCell took HS from its own record, but he wants to make an impression that MoonCell's record and human's record overlaps and basically the same. In Extella its said that MoonCell took HS from THrone of Heroes record, but if human's THrone of Heroes stems from human history and human's universe of awareness, and with MoonCell's activity has basically intermingle and assimilate with that of humans', this means that because MoonCell's universe of awareness and human's universe of awareness has intermingle so much, their records had becomes basically the same thing, which means actually same Throne as far as either humans or MoonCell's concerned.

Yes, by the end of Extella Golden arc, before calling some deus ex machina, Hakuno mentioned that the Moon Cell was capable of summoning servants in the first place was due to it being extremely close to human history. And if whatever being recorded by Moon Cell is no diff from Earth's records of human history, just synchronize them.

[Laserman]

How else do you explain the passage of time in comics and DBZ fights

Wow.

- - - Updated - - -

They did. You just have to remember which line represents which side story.

Like that one picture from the Fate/Extella thread with the timelines indicating the safe zones is all that we had to go on and even then we weren't sure.

[castor212]

Intermingling between universe of awareness and the subsequent result, with pruned human order becoming anchored XXX order instead as one of the focus, would be very fascinating indeed
with the notreallybuttotallyLovecraftian Outer Gods butting in already, who are close to true demons, i really would love to see how the subsequent result of such intermingling could make

[You]

　基本的に、

ここ

地上

にある物、

ここ

現実

で起きる事を、実現時間や必要経費を多少無視して発現させるだけのものだ。
　この

せかい

宇宙

で起きえない現象は、魔術であっても発現できない。
　要はショートカットを使いまくった等価交換だ。

What is the world
What is the universe

unrelated but so that's why part 2 is called Cosmos in the Lost Belt

Cosmos is originally a Greek word, meaning both "order" and "world,"

[Rafflesiac]

Achilles confirmed

[venomking]

i remeber somwere in the fate franchise it was mentioned that some mages can pull skills from there past selfs, are there any prominent users of that magecraft?

[You]

So with that said, could be other alien THrone of Heroes actually resides as the neighbour of humans' THrone of Heroes in the Outside of the World, doesnt intermingle because this speculative alien universe of awareness hasn't touch yet our universe of awareness
I also now wonder what happens when humans makes contact with aliens for real, civilization meets civilization, and their universe of awareness clashes
inb4 FGO part 3

universe of awareness clash would probably be something like Crystal Valley on South America
speculation time
it might be possible that the Throne of Heroes only exists for the Prime Ones for a planet if
A. That species is now independent from its planet
B. That planet is unable to produce a King/TYPE

[You]

It can be both. Remember that Moon Cell constantly follows the Earth's history and w/e happened on the Moon are retroactively recorded back to history, so it doesn't matter whose locks those are tbh, all will come back to human history.

That's true when the Moon Cell was an observation device but at the end of some of the routes in CCC, it switches to becoming an environment provider/open world RPG experience where all sorts of civilizations can come.
In that case, doesn't that mean the Moon Cell becomes intermingled with even more civilizations. Therefore, the QTLs of say humans, sayains, and kryptonians would all have to link as the moon cell becomes part of their history but this time the history is shared.
Or would that mean the SE.RA.PH becomes independent of those three awareness spaces, and then has its own awareness space based on SE.RA.PH rules.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

unrelated but so that's why part 2 is called Cosmos in the Lost Belt

Yes

[Lily Emilio]

universe of awareness clash would probably be something like Crystal Valley on South America
speculation time
it might be possible that the Throne of Heroes only exists for the Prime Ones for a planet if
A. That species is now independent from its planet
B. That planet is unable to produce a King/TYPE

Feel like it also has something to do with counterforce as well. I think we might figure something when looking further back into the AoG. Prior to humans, ancient gods = the prime ones and when they're out most of them became shinrei. Eirei are also kinda shinrei-ish and also part of counterforce like the shinrei back then. So figure out the details on them should shed more light to this.

That's true when the Moon Cell was an observation device but at the end of some of the routes in CCC, it switches to becoming an environment provider/open world RPG experience where all sorts of civilizations can come.
In that case, doesn't that mean the Moon Cell becomes intermingled with even more civilizations. Therefore, the QTLs of say humans, sayains, and kryptonians would all have to link as the moon cell becomes part of their history but this time the history is shared.
Or would that mean the SE.RA.PH becomes independent of those three awareness spaces, and then has its own awareness space based on SE.RA.PH rules.

I thought about this and I think the age of gods will have some hints. The ancient gods of different cultures some are native of Earth but alot of them are aliens. And not just aliens but different type of aliens from different alien civilizations. So how exactly did their universes of awareness collide and intermingle with that of others and earthlings to the point nearly all of them later on became prototypes for gods of various religions and then turned into shinrei once their era is gone. If we can have an answer to that, I think it should apply the same to what would happen if human history and the other races colllide via Moon Cell. Heck, I think human history already tied to that ancient alien race which created Moon Cell and Velber. What if they figured out the method of manipulating parallel worlds and history then used it to do some shit? What if the cyberworld where Gil and Hakuno fled to is Moon Cell 2.0 that these aliens placed on yet another planet?

[You]

Feel like it also has something to do with counterforce as well. I think we might figure something when looking further back into the AoG. Prior to humans, ancient gods = the prime ones and when they're out most of them became shinrei. Eirei are also kinda shinrei-ish and also part of counterforce like the shinrei back then. So figure out the details on them should shed more light to this.

I thought about this and I think the age of gods will have some hints. The ancient gods of different cultures some are native of Earth but alot of them are aliens. And not just aliens but different type of aliens from different alien civilizations. So how exactly did their universes of awareness collide and intermingle with that of others and earthlings to the point nearly all of them later on became prototypes for gods of various religions and then turned into shinrei once their era is gone. If we can have an answer to that, I think it should apply the same to what would happen if human history and the other races colllide via Moon Cell. Heck, I think human history already tied to that ancient alien race which created Moon Cell and Velber. What if they figured out the method of manipulating parallel worlds and history then used it to do some shit? What if the cyberworld where Gil and Hakuno fled to is Moon Cell 2.0 that these aliens placed on yet another planet?

good points
I wonder if the extella series will end with humans ascending the throne of the prime ones on the moon cell too in after a giant moon sengoku period.

[Draconic]

This is making my head spin

[Ruisu]

This is making my head spin

That usually happens when you try to get deeper in nasuverse lore through outside analysis instead of just reading the actual stuff. In the story itself most of the concepts and stuff is presented in a much more easy to digest manner.

[ScarfDyedShadow]

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.co...#post-10156340 the summary of the subject that Fallacies posted here might be of use

[You]

there are issues with that explaination and the next thing about psychics too

[ScarfDyedShadow]

Would it be alright to ask what they are? : O

[castor212]

Humanity universe of awareness, even if by some coincidence and extraneous situation, managed by some method incorporating / assimilating the gods, the aliens, and the bunch of other things and continue strong and sturdy as Human Order.

Humanity sugoi ne

Also do we even know what would really qualify as type earth

[Reign]

So are Types just the biggest baddest lifeforms on their respective planet or actual avatars of their planet's will made specifically by their planet's will? Reading Notes gave me the impression it was the former, but I've heard the latter before too.