Vote #1: Poll Choice Limits

[Mike1984]

Why should we be doing it "in rounds", though? If the question is "what is your favourite character" (as opposed to "which character is the most popular), then a large poll is the logical way to do it. 10 entries a poll is absurdly low, because it makes it virtually impossible to run any kind of favourite character poll in any sensible manner. And, unless you want us to clutter the thread with hundreds of threads like "favourite character part 103", it's the best way to run it....

[Dark Pulse]

Why should we be doing it "in rounds", though? If the question is "what is your favourite character" (as opposed to "which character is the most popular), then a large poll is the logical way to do it. 10 entries a poll is absurdly low, because it makes it virtually impossible to run any kind of favourite character poll in any sensible manner. And, unless you want us to clutter the thread with hundreds of threads like "favourite character part 103", it's the best way to run it....

Tournaments are run in rounds. In a poll with 10 choices, the top three from that poll advance to the next round. Repeat this 3 times. The fourth poll then consists of winners of the other three.

This way, it's an actual COMPETITION, and not just a handful of favorites running away with the vote.

[Jase]

People could always just post who's their favourite. It'd be about the same usefulness, and people could freely add characters yet to be considered.

[Mike1984]

Tournaments are run in rounds. In a poll with 10 choices, the top three from that poll advance to the next round. Repeat this 3 times. The fourth poll then consists of winners of the other three.

This way, it's an actual COMPETITION, and not just a handful of favorites running away with the vote.

Yeah, but then that's not a "favourite character" poll any more, because you're voting for which character you like out of the list given rather than your actual favourite.

I don't disagree with the concept of such a tournament (although, I'm not sure how it would stop the favourites "running away with it", if anything having fewer options increases their share of the vote), but it's asking a different question. A "favourite character" poll asks "which character is your favourite out of the whole Nasuverse (or this subset of it)", whereas a tournament like you're suggesting is asking "which character do you prefer from the list given". If you're going to run a tournament like that, it should really be 1 vs 1 and not 10 at a time, because otherwise it doesn't really tell you anything.

People could always just post who's their favourite. It'd be about the same usefulness, and people could freely add characters yet to be considered.

Yeah, they could, but then the person running the poll has to count them, which is a pain in the ass. Plus, it makes it impossible to tell at a glance who is actually winning.

[Dark Pulse]

Arguably, a poll that never ends has no winner, either.

[Mike1984]

Arguably, a poll that never ends has no winner, either.

Well, yeah, but you can just make it "favourite heroine 2010" and then end it at the end of the year....

But, in fact, that's another problem with your "competition" idea. It can't be made to run long-term, because it has multiple "rounds".

[Dark Pulse]

But, in fact, that's another problem with your "competition" idea. It can't be made to run long-term, because it has multiple "rounds".

So it eventually produces a definite winner.

I don't exactly see the problem with that.

[RacingeR]

Mike's point is that in a regular poll, like for example the "Favorite Characters TM 2011" or something like that, would have a time limit for closing at the end of the year, while the round-robin would prevent the polls during so much time, or something like that.

[Mike1984]

So it eventually produces a definite winner.

I don't exactly see the problem with that.

Well, again, it depends on what your intentions are....

I agree that the sort of contest you're suggesting has a place, but so does a longer-term single poll with a much larger number of options.

Mike's point is that in a regular poll, like for example the "Favorite Characters TM 2011" or something like that, would have a time limit for closing at the end of the year, while the round-robin would prevent the polls during so much time, or something like that.

Yep, got it in one.

That sort of poll idea (with multiple stages) is perfectly OK as a concept, but it would necessarily have to last only a short time, which means that it is less likely to be seen by everyone who might want to vote. Also, for many people, the earlier rounds would be pointless, because there's no way in hell that Rin, Saber, Arc etc. are going to get knocked out.

[RacingeR]

It also is pretty unjust for some characters. I pity the ones who end in the poll with Saber, for example. I think that just putting everyone on one giant poll is better.

[Mike1984]

It also is pretty unjust for some characters. I pity the ones who end in the poll with Saber, for example. I think that just putting everyone on one giant poll is better.

Well, yeah, there's that too. Who gets into the final poll will be heavily affected by who they're paired with in the preliminary rounds, and not only in terms of being paired with Rin or Saber. For example, if you put Rider and Sakura in separate polls, I'd say that they'd both probably make the final. But, if you put them together in one poll, there's a decent chance that one or both would miss out, due to the fact that most Sakura fans like Rider, and vice-versa, and thus the vote would be split.

[Jase]

Except round robin implies reseeding and new rounds according to matching characters of the same caliber in "points" .

If round robin were so badly conceived that things happened like that so easily, it would not be the major competitive format of basically every sport/game that can handle many simultaneous games at once (almost every TCG, tennis, curling, chess, etc).

[Dark Pulse]

Except round robin implies reseeding and new rounds according to matching characters of the same caliber in "points" .

If round robin were so badly conceived that things happened like that so easily, it would not be the major competitive format of basically every sport/game that can handle many simultaneous games at once (almost every TCG, tennis, curling, chess, etc).

This.

Stronger characters are seeded against stronger characters. If Ryougi Shiki and Saber are facing, say, Seo Akira and Kokutou Azaka, there's no chance for those two to win. (Much as I like them both.)

If they're facing each other, however...

[Mike1984]

Except round robin implies reseeding and new rounds according to matching characters of the same caliber in "points" .

If round robin were so badly conceived that things happened like that so easily, it would not be the major competitive format of basically every sport/game that can handle many simultaneous games at once (almost every TCG, tennis, curling, chess, etc).

Yeah, but we're not talking about round-robin here. We're talking about a first round with 10 characters, and then a final with the best from each group.

A round robin tournament would indeed work perfectly well, but it would also require a ridiculously large number of threads in order to run the poll effectively.

This.

Stronger characters are seeded against stronger characters. If Ryougi Shiki and Saber are facing, say, Seo Akira and Kokutou Azaka, there's no chance for those two to win. (Much as I like them both.)

If they're facing each other, however...

Yeah, but it's not even just "seeding", because liking two characters is not indepedant. Someone who likes Sakura is more likely to also like Rider, so if you put the two of them in the same group of 10, they both lose out. And, the same likely applies for lots of other characters.

What you're suggesting is fine if you're doing one-on-one battles, but that would require an ungodly number of threads, since each thread can only have one poll and each individual battle would require its own poll.

[RacingeR]

Oh yeah, i got confused with the definitions.

I was talking about the first round with then characters with a final.

[Dark Pulse]

Yeah, but it's not even just "seeding", because liking two characters is not indepedant. Someone who likes Sakura is more likely to also like Rider, so if you put the two of them in the same group of 10, they both lose out. And, the same likely applies for lots of other characters.

What you're suggesting is fine if you're doing one-on-one battles, but that would require an ungodly number of threads.

Really? So one is more likely to like all things attached to a character? Let's see the proof of this. Meanwhile, I'll attach proof for one of mine... though it's admittedly not Nasuverse.



The girl is Feli. You may recognize her as the girl in my last few avatars. I like Feli. I like her a lot.

The "Knight Dog" holding her is named Baldanders. She summoned him accidentally. She does like him. I can't stand him at all.

So y'see, one does not have to like all things with a character. By this definition, here's a few other things I'd have to like:

• Emiya Shirou, because I like Tohsaka Rin. I like Shirou, but not as much as I "should" according to this.
• Final Fantasy VIII's Irvine Kinneas, because I like Selphie Tilmitt. Irvine's got a decent Limit Break, but the whole "Bishounen Cowboy" never caught on with me.
• Chili Dogs, because I like the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoons (Both AoSTH and SatAM). I don't like Chili at all.

I think this proves my points. Liking Sakura doesn't mean one automatically likes Rider, and vice versa. Will you find people who like both? Sure. But you'll also find some who only like one or the other, and you'll find some who like neither.

As for the tournament, it'd probably be mass entries for the first 3 (4?) groups, then it'd be pared down to an even number, with 1 on 1s. More threads, sure, but you're only voting on one thing at a time, right?

[RacingeR]

But it seems like an enormous pain since one could simply amp the poll option limit and be done with it?

Then again, this whole discussion is a bit unnecesary, since it shall be what the poll shows, and it seems like 30 is winning with a four point lead.

[Dark Pulse]

Then again, this whole discussion is a bit unnecesary, since it shall be what the poll shows, and it seems like 30 is winning with a four point lead.

It's also not 50% of the vote, which means there'd be a smaller, quicker run-off.

Assuming votes ended exactly as they are (and I doubt this), it'd be 30, 20, and No limit.

[Jase]

Does the forum support multiple votes?

Cause batches of 9~10 with 3 votes per batch works okay.

[Mike1984]

Really? So one is more likely to like all things attached to a character? Let's see the proof of this. Meanwhile, I'll attach proof for one of mine... though it's admittedly not Nasuverse.

Most Sakura fans like Rider.

Also, it's not just that. If you like one character, you're more likely to like characters that are similar to them.

So y'see, one does not have to like all things with a character.

No, you do not have to. But, you are more likely to.

I think this proves my points. Liking Sakura doesn't mean one automatically likes Rider, and vice versa.

Of course it doesn't. But, statistically speaking, if you like Sakura, you're more likely to like Rider than if you don't, and vice-versa.

As for the tournament, it'd probably be mass entries for the first 3 (4?) groups, then it'd be pared down to an even number, with 1 on 1s. More threads, sure, but you're only voting on one thing at a time, right?

You're still going to have a lot of one-on-ones to run.

I would actually like to run a poll that goes something like that at some point, though. The only problem is trying to get a structure which avoids eliminating popular characters early in mass votes without having too many polls. I'd imagine it would need its own sub-forum, though, to prevent cluttering the main polls forum.

It's also not 50% of the vote, which means there'd be a smaller, quicker run-off.

Assuming votes ended exactly as they are (and I doubt this), it'd be 30, 20, and No limit.

I think it's safe to assume that 30 is going to win, though, because if it goes to a run-off I will certainly switch to that (because no-limit has no chance of winning), and so, I suspect, would most other people who voted for it.