Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Megas]

We popping the biggest bottles when the Tsuki Collab brings back Dartz

I fully expect by the time it comes around we'll either have a TYPE SABER that's even stronger than Arc, or it will be revealed that Arc is actually just Saber's soul sent back in time to be reincarnated as ARCHETYPE EARTH. And that marble phantasm is actually just one of Excalibur's latent powers.

[Iceblade44]

Make Versus Great Again

Sorry cannot compute. What is this fragile dream?

[Lily Emilio]

Holmes wasn't being specific yes, but he was talking about Servant's as strong as them.

No he did not. His entire statement is a logical deduction to educate Gordoff, that is "Look, if a strong servant who is capable of opposing Ivan already got summoned, that one would obviously tried to attack Ivan and we should've learned that by now, or maybe not". He was giving a deduction as to why Atalanta Alter is summoned but not stronger ones, or the ones capable of solving the problem. And you know what? If anything I believe he is talking about the Grand servants, because they are the ones who are infinitely more capable of saving the world on their own.

He isn't name calling, but the type of Servants he is bringing up is talking about are Servant's like them, the strongest.

No, it's like me and you walking into a near empty restaurant and I ordered a slice of bread from the menu. Then you rant that why not something better such as lobster and I tell you that "look bro, if there are top class food here, then this place should've already been crowded!". That does not mean I was referring to your lobster, it's me being hyperbolic in my reply to you to make a point and also to diss your intelligence, because I am an asshole just like Holmes.

Look, the point here is that you mistakenly thought that Holmes were also talking about the 3 Gordoff mentioned when he was just making his own speculations while throwing shades as Gordoff.

[Riku Noctis]

Godspeed

lol

Poor Dartz. Grand Order literally killed his chances of seeing Arc in action.
I wonder what would he think about BAA Nightmare with Arc there trolling people before the ending of part 1.

[Iceblade44]

No he did not. His entire statement is a logical deduction to educate Gordoff, that is "Look, if a strong servant who is capable of opposing Ivan already got summoned, that one would obviously tried to attack Ivan and we should've learned that by now, or maybe not". He was giving a deduction as to why Atalanta Alter is summoned but not stronger ones, or the ones capable of solving the problem.

I know that, I wasn't disagreeing with that point. What I was saying that talk of Strong Servants was including them in it, not that they were seperate. Gordoff said is it possible for us to get a strong Servant? And Holmes goes no because we would have already heard about it. I'm agreeing with what your saying on that, my comment was just that what he said in the later part of the paragraph was still talking about what he said in the first part about Servant's, he wasn't talking exclusively. And the Servants he was talking about were the type of Servants Gordoff brought up. Very strong Servant's in general. That's it.

[Lily Emilio]

I know that, I wasn't disagreeing with that point. What I was saying that talk of Strong Servants was including them in it, not that they were seperate. Gordoff said is it possible for us to get a strong Servant? And Holmes goes no because we would have already heard about it. I'm agreeing with what your saying on that, my comment was just that what he said in the later part of the paragraph was still talking about what he said in the first part. That's it.

Then why did you bring it up like it is some super important lore earlier? It really did feel like you were saying "oh shit Holmes clearly hinting that these 3 can save the world gais! Artoria can solve Russia lostbelt gais so Excalibur can kill mammoth!". Idk, it's the way you commented that gave me that impression.

[Iceblade44]

Then why did you bring it up like it is some super important lore earlier? It really did feel like you were saying "oh shit Holmes clearly hinting that these 3 can save the world gais! Artoria can solve Russia lostbelt gais so Excalibur can kill mammoth!". Idk, it's the way you commented that gave me that impression.

Well that wasn't how I was thinking it. What talk about Servants single handling saving the world meant to me was that it was just talking about Servant's who are strong enough to stand a chance against Ivan in a fight. Will they win? Not clear, probably not. Is it possible, sure maybe But nothing else then that. Dissecting through my comment when I used that example i was saying that I can see it happening, but right after that I said who knows, because I know that there is no certainty from that speculation, it just make sense that they could do it because they are strong Servant's, but even if it makes sense doesn't mean that's how it would play out. After rereading my comment i can see why It was confusing because it seemed I was to quick and brief with my wording, on that sorry. But what my comment meant was just "I can see Artoria beating Ivan but it's uncertain, Excalibur is strong but I'm not certain that would be enough so its unknown." And "well at the very least Excalbur could probably one shot the tree of it's really alien, but that is the least, anything more than that is unknown."

[8000]

Gordolf and Holmes had that conversation before they had anything more than second hand knowledge about Ivan, they were just throwing hypotheticals. The point was asking if there was some hope they could get bigger guns.

Regarding Excalibur it has higher rank than Chaldea (or I guess Shadow Border?) Ivan's mammoth but I assume the Ivan they fought was more powerful given the mammoth was more powerful than Mekuth which (assuming the anime didn't fudge this up too), took multiple A+ NPs to beat.

I think Ivan is meant to be on par with Quetz and Lion King and wouldn't ever lose to a single servant. There were multiple servants in the Lostbelt and they couldn't just gangbang Ivan, but all those servants working together would've easily overwhelmed Artoria.

[You]

well, i may as well go ahead and ask this since we started delving into core Nasu mechanics

if all magecraft does is to give scientifically achievable outputs really quickly, how does that go for certain elemental attacks? in strange fake, they treat Gil's lightning as actual lightning and when fighting the police force, the narration mentions that the light that was created by a random member did indeed move at the speed of light.

would that mean that the beams of Medea's "rain of light" spell move at the speed of light, if even low tier magi can pull something like that off?

how about the beam's from Ozy's sun boat or Archimede's NP which revolves around reflecting light from a sun?

Human technology is great.
In the past few hundred years, it has been leading the way ahead of magic.
Nothing is impossible for humans.
The miracles once only possible through magic are now "tools" and not miraculous at all.

Still, magic has its good points.
Just as there are things possible only through science,
there are also things possible only through magic.
It was the master of the Tohsaka family who said that if science is moving toward the future, magic is moving toward the past.
Something about the past and the future ending up at the same place, everything always running toward the zero point.
Let's put off all these difficult discussions. They should wait until we're old.

Nope. Magecraft is the ability to re-create supernatural mysteries from the past.
If you use a spell that is going to make light... the light is going to move at lightspeed because well, it's light

Medea's rain of light is probably just a bunch of glowy magical bullets, not actually light.

[castor212]

Let's put off all these difficult discussions. They should wait until we're old.

Im not old yet, do i put off all the difficult questions

[Deathhappens]

Im not old yet, do i put off all the difficult questions

Never put off for tomorrow the shit you can do today; truck-kun could be waiting around every corner.

Except homework of various shapes and sizes. Always leave that until the last possible minute,because fuck people infringing on your free time

[DAK]

Where is the source of 1900 is the cut off date for somebody becoming a Heroic Spirit? Is it because of this line from FSN?

Day 3: The most recent from a hundred years ago, the oldest from the ancient days.

Cause that makes the deadline a few years further, considering that 5th HGW happened in 2004.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

That was the source, and lol to a few years making a difference. People just say ~1900 for the same reason a person is gonna say "it cost 10 bucks" when the cost is 9.95.

[fire_mountain_30]

Nope. Magecraft is the ability to re-create supernatural mysteries from the past.
If you use a spell that is going to make light... the light is going to move at lightspeed because well, it's light

Medea's rain of light is probably just a bunch of glowy magical bullets, not actually light.

i thought about them just being magical bullets as well at first but a few things made me think otherwise.

out of all the magic spell names that i was able to look up in my time as a TM fan, this particular spell is the only one that mentions an element in its name.

also, most beam attacks used in the novels get explained as to what they are. Gandr is a curse disease, Aoko's bullets are kinetic energy...this spell is the only one of its kind without additional explanation besides what we get at face value.

also, Roa uses lightning and that isnt terribly difficult for the cast members in tsukihime to deal with (if i may bring up the manga, shiki did it while near death). i dont see anything that isnt faster than electricity giving a servant any pause.

[Deathhappens]

i thought about them just being magical bullets as well at first but a few things made me think otherwise.

out of all the magic spell names that i was able to look up in my time as a TM fan, this particular spell is the only one that mentions an element in its name.

also, most beam attacks used in the novels get explained as to what they are. Gandr is a curse disease, Aoko's bullets are kinetic energy...this spell is the only one of its kind without additional explanation besides what we get at face value.

also, Roa uses lightning and that isnt terribly difficult for the cast members in tsukihime to deal with (if i may bring up the manga, shiki did it while near death). i dont see anything that isnt faster than electricity giving a servant any pause.

Presumably that's why she fires lots of them at once.

[Lily Emilio]

this particular spell is the only one that mentions an element in its name.

Nope. See Tamamo's curses, some of the most curse-happy and element-happy names out there.

also, most beam attacks used in the novels get explained as to what they are. Gandr is a curse disease, Aoko's bullets are kinetic energy...this spell is the only one of its kind without additional explanation besides what we get at face value.

The reason for why it has no additional explanation is probably due to it having nothing else to explain. It's just some magic bullets with a fancy name attached to it.

also, Roa uses lightning and that isnt terribly difficult for the cast members in tsukihime to deal with (if i may bring up the manga, shiki did it while near death). i dont see anything that isnt faster than electricity giving a servant any pause.

You do understand that each servant have their own speed right? Some are fast, some are slow.

[Reign]

At the risk of sounding like I'm wanking my waifu, could Jeanne resist being blackened by grail mud with MR EX? I'm thinking of how it let her resist Maria the Ripper, though I'm aware AM is definitely a more powerful curse than that.

[fire_mountain_30]

Nope. See Tamamo's curses, some of the most curse-happy and element-happy names out there.

and do those spells live up to their namesake accurately? if they do, then why wouldnt Medea's?

also, regarding the Ozy sun boat, due to the shifts in perspective in narration in different volumes of prototype, i cant recall how many beams hit Jekyl before he died or how many times did Ozy try to shoot him before hitting him. can anyone give me that info with scans?

[Deathhappens]

At the risk of sounding like I'm wanking my waifu, could Jeanne resist being blackened by grail mud with MR EX? I'm thinking of how it let her resist Maria the Ripper, though I'm aware AM is definitely a more powerful curse than that.

While I don't remember the details, if Gil could resist it, there's at least a chance other Servants could do it too (pretty sure it's implied he didn't just use some NP to do it).
Not sure if MR would play a part in it, though. Seems more like a force of will/personality thing, otherwise Saber would've had much better odds at resisting as well.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Gil's ego overcame the curse. Likewise why Command Spells don't work on Gil.