Badass Versus Thread

[You]

Hm, I see. Are there any rules for when they're one and the same, and when they're not? I imagine Saber's M. Res. wouldn't help her in any way against Balmung's beam, for instance.

"…I am sorry. I was too concentrated on protecting Shirou, I was not able to tell what it was.
If I had worried about such a thing, we would have been engulfed by it."

"It was something close to it. Its classification is close to the magic you use. It could not have been an anti-personnel Noble Phantasm, like my sword or Lancer's lance."
"It's even stranger if it's like my magic.
Your magic resistance is godly. No magic in the present day can hurt you. If there is a magic even you have to avoid, that would be…"
"Yes. Divine mysteries are nullified by even stronger ones.
A divine mystery that can strike through my armor is what you people call 'sorcery' or a fantastic race with divinity."
"Sorceryare you saying Rider is a magus…!?"

She is of class Rider. If there is a magus, it could only be Caster. I believe Rider's Noble Phantasm is something else."
Tohsaka gives a relieved sigh at Saber's answer.
But I don't quite get it.

"Saber. Is your armor that strong? If you say only sorcery can go through it, then that would make Lancer's Gae Bolg a sorcery as well."
"Eh…? Yes, Lancer's Gae Bolg is certainly a 'curse' close to sorcery, but… Rin, could you please explain to Shirou?"

NPs are generally mysteries that surpass Magic Resistance.
No matter how much jet fuel Saber has her MR is still A rank.
It won't help against Balmung.

[Clyton]

Would Magic Resistance count for the purposes of a "defensive ability" in regards to Noble Phantasms? (Such as Christine, Christine being affected by a defensive ability, would MR work against it? That kind of situation.)

[You]

possible but not sure if its probable.
It'd be like MR protecting you against Invisible Air.
But then again christine christine is pretty meh
but then again isn't it B rank?

[Clyton]

Yeah it is. And to boot, one can always follow that line of thinking where a Noble Phantasm attack is like two ranks or more higher than a normal physical attack. Who knows, maybe the same can be said for Christine Christine doing a magical attack on a level beyond an A rank magic attack, making normal MR pointless. *shrugs*

[Iceblade44]

Well it only said you could block defensly with armor or some such, but as its an NP its actually damage output is probably higher then we think it is.

[Qinglong]

I want to complain it's a terrible NP, but then I remember Sword of Boudicca and it's not as sad as that

[You]

Well it only said you could block defensly with armor or some such, but as its an NP its actually damage output is probably higher then we think it is.

well its damage over time

and i very much hope its not B rank NP damage every 5 secs that would be very strong.

[Iceblade44]

I want to complain it's a terrible NP, but then I remember Sword of Boudicca and it's not as sad as that

Even if it doesn't work, all you can do is to believe.

[AvengerEmiya]

Fate/Extella vs Senran Kagura

[Qinglong]

SK wins in gameplay and you know the answer to the other question.

[AvengerEmiya]

and you know the answer to the other question.

Yea, SK has better writing too.

[SpoonyViking]

NPs are generally mysteries that surpass Magic Resistance.
No matter how much jet fuel Saber has her MR is still A rank.
It won't help against Balmung.

Oh, so it's not that NPs break the rules by their very nature, it's just that they tend to be so powerful regular abilities can't handle them.
So, hypothetically speaking, if such a thing as an E-Rank Balmung existed, would Saber's Magic Resistance do anything to protect her against it?

[mewarmo990]

Oh, so it's not that NPs break the rules by their very nature, it's just that they tend to be so powerful regular abilities can't handle them.

It's both and it depends.

There are NPs that are beyond what anyone could do just by scaling up magic, even if you set aside "mystery".

and even in cases where it's possible, just practically speaking it's not really worth the trouble to try to counter a Servant with regular magic, that's why Rin placed all that emphasis on "only Servants should fight Servants"

e.g. even if you had a gun that fired kryptonite bullets, it's probably a bad idea to pick a fight with Superman

So, hypothetically speaking, if such a thing as an E-Rank Balmung existed, would Saber's Magic Resistance do anything to protect her against it?

Because she possesses characteristics of a dragon, Artoria would have difficulty against beings such as Siegfried, who are associated with tales of "dragon slaying." If she is targeted by "dragon slaying magic," it is possible that Magic Resistance will not function to its full extent.

[RoydGolden]

So, hypothetically speaking, if such a thing as an E-Rank Balmung existed, would Saber's Magic Resistance do anything to protect her against it?

It's still not clear, since I don't think NPs are necessarily qualified by the same numerical basis as Skills or parameters.

An E-ranked Noble Phantasm could still do far more damage then an ordinary strike with E-rank Strength, for instance. (Pure rankings really only matter with things like Heracles' God Hand)

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Oh, so it's not that NPs break the rules by their very nature, it's just that they tend to be so powerful regular abilities can't handle them.
So, hypothetically speaking, if such a thing as an E-Rank Balmung existed, would Saber's Magic Resistance do anything to protect her against it?

This also might depend on what Balmung is classified as. See, MR's description isn't exactly a resistance even though we call it that. CM3 describes it as cancelling spells. NPs aren't just spells even when they are, they're reproductions of a feat. Like, hitting a Servant using Invisible Air is not just hitting them with a windy bound field, so it's not like Cu is sitting there going "well I don't need to worry, her spell isn't grand ritual level so my MR will nullify it."

[SpoonyViking]

Oh, I see. Ok, that makes sense. Thanks!

[You]

See, MR's description isn't exactly a resistance even though we call it that.

It's cancelling and resistance.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION

command spell mind control is different until we get an NP of a command spell or she faces Heroic Spirit God's Word

[You]

i'm talking about MR's description in extella loading screens

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I am actually behind on Extella since I am poor and do not have the desire to devote to the grinding of a musou nor a Japanese console to play the game on because screw you XSEED