A Message to Mike1984 from the Mod Team

[Blue]

Well, yeah, I just about have enough faith remaining in the admins to believe that they're not going to listen to Alf's rubbish. Still, it doesn't make it any less downright offensive to have someone agitating to get you banned when it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

These are part of the changes that have been talked about I guess. I'm aware of your history of butting heads with alf. Maybe its time to let some of them slide. You don't need the last say in everything. It would be better for your personal well-being to stop arguing with him and being too wound up over all this if nothing will change. There is no high ground to win here. He has made comments and you have defended yourself. Both done quite civilly (even if a bit forced at times). No more should be said in this regard.

[Mike1984]

These are part of the changes that have been talked about I guess. I'm aware of your history of butting heads with alf. Maybe its time to let some of them slide. You don't need the last say in everything. It would be better for your personal well-being to stop arguing with him and being too wound up over all this if nothing will change. There is no high ground to win here. He has made comments and you have defended yourself. Both done quite civilly (even if a bit forced at times). No more should be said in this regard.

I am not the one who is driving this, I am merely defending myself from someone who is agitating to get me banned....

[Kyte]

It is never Mike's fault.

[Blue]

My instant response is that alf's comments would not cause a ban, which would be a circular argument... so I guess I'm done here. Have a break, take a breath Mike.

[fraggle]

Perhaps it's a good idea to lock this thread at this point.


We all got the message that the staff wanted to send to Mike at this point, there's been enough time to discuss it. All this thread can accomplish at this point is ether repeat what's already been said or turn it into a personal slugfest as people ether try to troll Mike into lashing out or possible start an encounter because they honestly want Mike to get banned.


I myself an indifferent on the matter, leaving this up to Mike and the moderators to see what happens in the end. Everyone got the message. No need to poke the sleeping dragon, so to speak.

[Mike1984]

It is never Mike's fault.

I know you like to blame me for everything, but I'm not entirely clear how I can possibly be my fault that Alf decided to come in here and start shouting his mouth off about how the admins should ban me already.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps it's a good idea to lock this thread at this point.


We all got the message that the staff wanted to send to Mike at this point, there's been enough time to discuss it. All this thread can accomplish at this point is ether repeat what's already been said or turn it into a personal slugfest as people ether try to troll Mike into lashing out or possible start an encounter because they honestly want Mike to get banned.


I myself an indifferent on the matter, leaving this up to Mike and the moderators to see what happens in the end. Everyone got the message. No need to poke the sleeping dragon, so to speak.

I don't think it should be locked, because I am still having a discussion with DP and the rest of the mods, and that cannot easily be done outside this thread. Plus, I will not be at all happy if DP uses his mod powers to get the last word by posting and then locking the thread before I can reply (or vice-versa).

I do think, however, that people should not post in this thread unless they have something actually constructive to add, which means not going "hey, why haven't you banned him yet?"

[Kyte]

Contrary to your thought, you don't need to get the last word in.

(Hey, why haven't you banned him yet?)

[SeiKeo]

(Hey, why haven't you banned him yet?)

Probably because we 1: give no fucks about what you want, or, 2: are preparing a super-fabulous ban.

goddamn, not serious

[Mike1984]

Contrary to your thought, you don't need to get the last word in.

No, I don't, but it's still not really reasonable for DP to forcefully get the last word by the use of his thread locking powers.

[mangafreak7793]

......Can't we just take it as it is.

I've read through this read and I agree that this is going in circles but we have not discussed the bottom issue.

Mike, I have no real grudge towards you nor do I have hatred for you but I honestly think you have to bite your tongue on this issue. You have a final chance, just take this final chance and drop the issue.

I may not be as eloquent with words compared to the other members or am I grammatically correct but I do believe that in the kindness of their hearts they do want you here but if issues like these keep popping up, they can't help you or the community. I mentioned in your blog that "abuse of power" was a bit much for the issue and you mentioned that it may have been but couldn't have changed the blog or post, or edited mentioning this was a bit extreme.

People say things when it happens all the time or type in this case but when one knows and realizes that they went a bit overboard, they pull back such statements and apologize.

I'm not saying this because I'm against you, I'm just saying this so that way this could blow over in time but to suddenly argue over details like this isn't going to help your case one bit if anything will only demerit it.

[Mike1984]

I'm not saying this because I'm against you, I'm just saying this so that way this could blow over in time but to suddenly argue over details like this isn't going to help your case one bit if anything will only demerit it.

Look, I want to resolve this issue, it is as simple as that. Elf and Altima were my friends, and I would rather it remain that way, but that means talking things out with them. And, of course, I would also like to be able to continue posting on this forum as I have before, without shying away from any discussion that could even possibly result in an argument because I simply do not know where I stand. Neither of those things are possible if I just stop here, so that is simply not an option.

There is a serious issue here, yes, but I need to talk to them, not to just be told this and then left to squirm with no idea of what my position is and feeling so unsafe that I don't dare make any post that could even possibly be seen as controversial.

[mangafreak7793]

Then talk to them, talking here will only demerit what you are trying to defend. Altima or Elf do feel bad about this and care about you. Heck, even Altima questioned if I tried to pick a fight just for agreeing or playing with a statement with neir said awhile back.thats how much they care but arguing here again will not help you but only proving to the community that you are not cooperating.

[Mike1984]

Well, perhaps, but they aren't talking to me off-forum either.

[mangafreak7793]

Well, perhaps, but they aren't talking to me off-forum either.

They aren't going to respond immediately, everyone has their own lives and they know arguing on a public fourm or maybe even through outside sources is only going to invite trouble later. Just talk to the mods or admins "all of them" and discuss this with them regardless on how you view or trust them, or how friendly you are with them.

They are a group and you must talk with each representative of the group and calmly talk it. This is a private matter so let it be private.

[Mike1984]

They aren't going to respond immediately, everyone has their own lives and they know arguing on a public fourm or maybe even through outside sources is only going to invite trouble later. Just talk to the mods or admins "all of them" and discuss this with them regardless on how you view or trust them, or how friendly you are with them.

They are a group and you must talk with each representative of the group and calmly talk it.

I need to talk to them, yes, but I'm not entirely sure how, aside from in this thread.

This is a private matter so let it be private.

I'm not the one who made it public....

[RR121]

If this thread was going to be locked, there was no point to posting it publically.

Not that I'm certain there ever *was* a point to posting it publically, mind you.

[mangafreak7793]

Then pm them, it will take time yes but if you message all of them with the same plight then one of them will respond.

True, but mike I also recall you posting your outrage when they gave you a temp ban or warning (do not recall) on your blog. They only made it public because they expected that if they did it privately you will make it public and just cause a bigger disaster.

While I do feel that this may not have been the best of ideas but I know they had no other alternatives in this matter. I know some of the mods even if their just formally, some are even really smart and eloquent with words such as Elf who tried her best to get this message across with a heavy heart without any bias feeling on her part. They are not stupid and I know they did this after a long debate among themselves and I know that you know that both of you didn't want this.

However as mods they must maintain this fourm even when the hard decisions rises.

[Mike1984]

Then pm them, it will take time yes but if you message all of them with the same plight then one of them will respond.

True, but mike I also recall you posting your outrage when they gave you a temp ban or warning (do not recall) on your blog. They only made it public because they expected that if they did it privately you will make it public and just cause a bigger disaster.

Yes, this is true, but they did not even try to talk this over with me first, and Altima even told me to "forget it" for a while after saying on MSN that we needed to talk about stuff. This would have worked far better as a private thing, and if I decided to make it public, then they could always set the record straight then.

While I do feel that this may not have been the best of ideas but I know they had no other alternatives in this matter. I know some of the mods even if their just formally, some are even really smart and eloquent with words such as Elf who tried her best to get this message across with a heavy heart without any bias feeling on her part. They are not stupid and I know they did this after a long debate among themselves and I know that you know that both of you didn't want this.

However as mods they must maintain this fourm even when the hard decisions rises.

It's not true that they had "no alternatives", though. They could have talked to me privately, and they could have been less formal about it, and less threatening. IMO, at least, that would have led to a far better outcome for everyone, except those members of the forum who want me to be banned....

[Knick]

Before reading my post please relies that I am a rather new member with little knowledge about past issues so I will be interpreting recent events. My opinions my come out in this post but I will try to keep it an impartial as possible

I have read through this whole thread looking at what people have said, from arguments to how people might have felt in varying situations, however I have to agree that delivering this ultimatum was the correct choice in how to deal with this issue, as long as they keep through with what they said.

Main points for issuing warning (important word, its only a warning as in improve on these points and the threat goes away):
- Refuses to accept others opinions as variables
- Harsh language and constant verbal assaults
- Places superior value on own interpretations and beliefs then others (relates to first point)
- Unaware of the severity of ones own actions, does not act on knowledge if he is aware

Even having been on the fourm for a short amount of time I have also picked up on this in other threads where discussions occurred (I was actually a main contributor to the morality discussion, where I agree in that I might have come off a little strong) that have enforced these points.

I would not like to see Mike ban personally, he is one of those who knows Sakura's character the best on the forum, and can use this to become a very productive member of the community by assisting people in nailing her character in RP or fanfictions. However he really needs to learn to accept other people interpretations or opinions; not like them, he can venomously disagree with them for all it matters, but he should be able to put personal opinion aside to from a polite and meaning full response instead of shutting down people downright.

Overall the warning is the correct choice I believe, but again I don't want to see Mike banned, I would love to have a constructive discussion with him about characterization of different characters in the future but only if he can fix the issues he has.

[Seika]

OK, let's put it this way. Arguments in themselves are not and cannot be the problem. I have enough of them on this forum to know. So it's got to be aspects of those arguments. I'm not part of the admin/mod team, so I obviously can't tell you what they're actually looking for. But some suggestions:

1) Language. Even in this thread, where you've been taking care, a search for 'fucking' turns up you, people quoting you, Velsper pastiching your posting style and Kyte (once). Swearing isn't helpful - it's aggressive, offensive, and isn't going to make a pleasant atmosphere for current or potential users. Seems like a good place to start.

2) Number, and the constancy of their topic. Just let some of the discussions go, Mike. It's built you a terrible reputation here and elsewhere: people know that you'll jump into discussions of Sakura and into any 'fic ideas which have a hope of including her and aggressively push your view. That puts people off massively: off the forum and off Sakura discussion. And off Sakura, for that matter - there's been a number of people around BL who have put it on record that you've damaged their view of the character by association. Choose your fights, and let some go. You know there are some other Sakura fans around - even VM them to say they might want to put her side of the debate forward: suggest points to them yourself if you want. Honestly, you're not a good advocate at this point because you've built a reputation of unreasoned fanaticism and your aggressive posting quickly makes it personal all round.

3) The focus itself can be looked at separately and reversed too: find other things to post about, work on getting rid of your reputation. There's been enough people in this thread who've said that they know you can be intelligent and can make good posts. Do more of that, and people can start to think of you as a decent person who's also a big Sakura fan, instead of as a scarily devoted Sakura nut who occasionally makes good posts when it's not about her. That'll help here and for the off-site people.

This is obviously a concern for the team, given the phrasing of the OP. The reputation of your focus, your readiness to go for anything half-way relevant to Sakura and your posting style hurts the forum. At the very least, see something that riles you up, then leave it for an hour or two. You should have calmed down and thought of some better points to put forward with by then, points which can help your side of the argument look and be better. You know you have a temper, it's a gigantic liability as regards meeting the terms of the A/M team, so take steps to reign it in.