Hmm if about the OG I will go with Avalon too.
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Hmm if about the OG I will go with Avalon too.
God Hand > Delusional Heartbeat > Gate of Babylon > Tsubame Gaeshi > Bellerophon > Gáe Bolg > Excalibur > UBW > Rule Breaker
For me, the ways I look at an NP are (a) if I just think it's cool/interesting in its own right, (b) if I think it's a reasonable way of comporting the legend/feat/item in question into the setting, and (c) if I think it slots in with the rest of the Servant's kit to give the idea of this cohesive whole, where you have the Servant's sheet basically telling a story about how they are. That doesn't mean something's gotta excel in all three for me to like it, but I guess that's kinda how I break it down. Obviously those categories can't apply across the board given the quirks of certain Servants, though.
I think something like God Hand meets all three categories really handily and is the gold standard from the FSN cast. It's rad, adapts the Twelve Labors without the bloat of Alkeides in a way that feels organic, and interlocks incredibly well with the rest of Herc's kit so that just by looking at the guy's stat sheet, even with how simple it ultimately is, you get this feeling of him as this unstoppable, persevering force. The mechanics, the character, and the real life legend all work together, basically.
I Stan for Herc's Kit's Design for a Bit
Yeah I really like the huge sigil in the sky and mandala, it's probably why im wiling to give romulus a bit of slack as it looks so good, BUT romulus still is eh
its a 50/50 chance they will explain what it does right?
Honestly I'm kinda the opposite on god hand, I feel like its partially the reason why herc is delegated to being illya's pet and 'how can he somewhat job?'
Gae Bolg is the worst one out of FSN. It might be cool conceptually, but nothing will ever be able to fix how it was immediately undermined.
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Also the only time it got a cool animation was with Deen.
Indeed. And the thing is, Nasu did it so much better with the ranged version's clash with Rho Aias.
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Really? But it was so simple! I'm a fan of elegant simplicity, but the Deen version didn't seem much elegant to me.
It's just that the red streak on the black background is the best representation of Gae Bolg and the shards flying off Saber's destroyed armor are a nice finishing touch. I also like how quick it happens. Unlimited Codes is the second best representation, just because I really like how the lance has already pierced the enemy by itself and Cu has to go get it.
UFOtable's absurd tentacle laser is awful.
Meanwhile, on other games... Grand Order is basically just the red streak from the VN, which is good but not an improvement. Extra doesn't do anything different and is just ugly because the game is ugly. Extella and Link just go for the thrown version instead.
The display of Gae Bolg's ability was underwhelming yeah, but as one of the very first scenes at beginning of FSN it's also one meant to be a defining representation of what the real source of conflict would be in the upcoming battles of the story and to cement the absurdity of what kind of supernatural beings servants were. Saber overturning fate itself as the only solution to surviving a reality-shifting-heart-seeking-spear because of Heroic Spirits embody overcoming impossible odds leaves a memorable impression of its abilities, and although it's unrelated, got a really good showing later in HA by having its own limelight to shine like a lot of similar things that couldn't be worked into the original work.I'd owe that more on Herc relegating himself to being a mindless attack dog to keep Illya happy. As long as all Herc can do is roar and smash the specifics of it doesn't actually matter. The only thing I don't like about God hand itself is taking multiple lives. One kill = One life or bust
The scene doesn't achieve that at all. It happens way to early and before Gae Bolg actually proves how impressive it is. Rather than conveying how amazing it is that Saber can overturn fate, it comes off as a poor excuse to deal with a power that was written to be way too strong, but that obviously won't ever work due to the needs of the narrative.
Honestly god hand and the GoB criticism does bring up that a lot of old NPs have kinda aged badly due to later changes.
GoB as someone noted has been so heavily wanked its hard to believe gil can even lose even with the excuse given and god hand has some really weird rules added to it now or has been changed
Indeed. Those characters just didn't have enough screen time to properly set up our expectations for the scene to work properly. It also loses a lot of steam when considered within the novel as a whole because honestly, Nasu overuses the subversion of expectations.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who hated the tentacle laser. In fact, that's exactly how I described it when arguing with my friends about it.
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And while we're criticising, I think God Hand is overall pretty meh. Greek Myth Hercules was mostly famed for his strength, not his invulnerability. The Twelve Labors were a penance he had to do on orders from his cousin king Eurystheas, not just heroic exploits. Sure, giving him twelve lives is a clever narrative idea when he's already the peak of power and fighting ability, but it's visually pretty boring.
I don't mind ufo's Gae Bolg as a visual, fact I think it looks pretty cool, but it did lead to some weird confusion over the NP's range. I've heard people on this very forum say Gae Bolg's range is way greater than 2~4 meters now, when in reality that's purely a visual and the NP's effect still only activates if you're within the stated range.
Well, not every hero's NP has to be super flashy. That can kind of get into serial escalation that ultimately makes them stand out less. As for lore accuracy, there is the legend that Heracles was deified into an immortal god for conquering the Twelve Labors, which does fit with the "immortality" angle.
What do you mean "the excuse given"? The whole point is that inside of UBW, Shirou is faster than Gil and Gil is literally too arrogant to even consider taking Shirou seriously until it's too late. Saying it's dumb that he lost because "now we know he has nukes and spaceships wtf" makes as much sense as saying "it shouldn't matter if ubw negates gob he can just use ea". That is to say, it's missing the entire point of why Gil lost in the first place.
That’s understandable, sure. Personally, though, I’m with pinetree and SpoonyViking on Gae Bolg’s use in FSN. Since Cu doesn’t feature much in the rest of the work, Gae Bolg has an underwhelming showing and I’m left to wonder what the point was. (Didn’t Takeuchi take it a step further and say he found Cu’s overall role forgettable, by the way?)
Question: do people think Nasu should reconsider Gae Bolg’s design in the future? Perhaps it’d be better because, as pinetree indicated, it’s essentially written into a corner with the way it’s designed.
What do you mean reconsider? It's not like he can go back and change it.
Besides, I doubt Lancer Cu is ever going to get another relevant enough role for it to matter.