Super Tsukihime Remake Spoiler Thread

I can very easily believe this.

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Originally Posted by Comun

Honestly, the most intriguing part of the interview to me was this:

https://i.imgur.com/Y81d6sD.png

Mario is a character who is still hiding his secrets but Nasu already spread all the hints the player needs to figure everything out. In fact, Nasu already found (a) theory post(s) that got the answer completely right.

Note also that the interview was published on the 28th but actually held on the 8th.

With that information and a very convenient lack of costumers today, I could check every Mario theory tweeted up until the 8th and learn what Nasu was talking about here. The results were interesting. I was expecting to see multiple answers and not be sure which was right, but it turned out that while the posts were wildly different in amount and choice of evidence, most of them had the same conclusion, and many of the ones saying different things back then already evolved their theories in the direction of this unified answer we got. I'm very confident that what I'm posting here is the truth Nasu indirectly confirmed in the interview.

Spoiler:

I'll start with Mario/Laurentis's backstory as laid out by the VN. Laurentis was a model cardinal of the Holy Church, considered to be the ideal candidate to be the next Pope if it weren't for one fatal flaw. Laurentis adopted over 20 sons or grandsons under a pretense of charity, but the adopted children looked too much like Laurentis himself for people to buy that, so the rumor spread that he was this lustful man ignoring his chastity vows to bang every woman he found. That's all that's openly said and all else is implied.

Mario's goal in Tsukihime is to find Roa and ask him about immortality, so he can either make his "(grand)father" Laurentis perfectly immortal, or remove his imperfect immortality (his curse of eternal youth). Roa's answer was that he became a vampire because it's impossible to get immortal while retaining his humanity, and the vulture who scavenged his documents and ignored this clearly written detail got what was coming to them.

Later in Roa's flashback talk with Nrvnqsr, Roa explain to his friend that he shifted his research subjected from the body to the soul because "the 'eternal youth' he was working with was retrogression itself". So the conclusion of the theories is that Mario and all of his older brothers are actually Laurentis himself aging backwards like Benjamin Button because he used Roa's eternal youth magecraft without caring about the drawbacks.

Most of the other bits of evidence presented around are mismatches in either time, relationships, and identity. Going over them one by one:

- Time: Mario is stated to be 12 but claims to be acquainted with Arcueid and to have experience pacifying a rampaging True Ancestor before, but those are both impossible because Arcueid's last activity was 13 years before. He also called the brother saved by Ciel a "brat not even on his 20s", which a very unnatural thing for 12-year-old younger brother to say. In the confrontation against Roa, he also talks about not having much time left to live, even though he's the youngest character here.

- Relationships: Arcueid and Ciel technically don't know Mario, but Mario talks to them like he knows them on a personal level, at least enough to recognize the huge changes in Arcueid's post-Shiki personality and say Ciel is "still merciless as always". He uses "reading his (grand)father's files" as an excuse for his knowledge, but Arcueid clearly recognizes him by the "familiar smell of a Laurentis child", and Ciel makes a point to compare him to the brother whose life she saved in their first encounter.

- Identity: The thing I found the most curious about Mario in my own playthrough of Arc's route was how his motivations were completely not about himself. He was fighting for his father's goal as if they were his own. His hatred and disappointment at Roa's answer felt personal like he was the one who depended on it. In my playthrough I though he just loved his father that much, but the theory reframes his portrayal into something a lot more natural. And then there's his conversation with Shiki on the Ciel Normal End that practically spells everything out:


Miscellaneous extra evidence:
- Mario is constantly stated to be 12, but his materials list his age as "12-14 (estimated)".
- One of his dislikes is "the brother immediately before him", instead of the much more naturally worded "the brother immediately older than him".
- Laurentis is retired and hidden from the public.
- Laurentis is described as "human manipulator", which is something Mario's Piano Machine makes literal.

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I agree with this. Ever since Mario and Roa had the talk in Arcs route I thought it may be possible. The normal end further hints that ya.

So what, none of them were ever seen together in the same room?

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Originally Posted by Rafflesiac

So what, none of them were ever seen together in the same room?

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You're assuming this isn't some sort of multiple bodies situation. We have a few clues, but I'd still wait for more info before absolute confirmation.

Laurentis's family is his own Egg Theory.

Mario can control puppets, plus it could indeed be a case of things just coincidentally having them not be in the same place at the same time, backed by their influence and the already existing negative rumour to make it so people don't think twice.

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Originally Posted by Wishy-Washy

Mario can control puppets, plus it could indeed be a case of things just coincidentally having them not be in the same place at the same time, backed by their influence and the already existing negative rumour to make it so people don't think twice.

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This. Who knows what kind of situation it is 'exactly' or what cover is being used. Though I think the main concept is probably true about his real identity and affliction.

That's interesting. If it's true, I wonder if he'll make an appearance

Spoiler:

in Record as a Pope if his backstory of adopting many children is unchanged. He could easily have a stand-in serves as a public face while hiding away his appearance, with few people including the Harweys know about it. Then again, it's also possible in Fate world he doesn't necessarily have that semi-immortality situation.

Oh, speaking of, I've been looking at the Tsuki Remake's Character Profiles and noticed something odd. Satsuki's original birthday according to KT was August 15th, but in the Remake it's been moved up to October 15th, the same (assumed) birth date as Shiki. It's possible it's a mistake, but I'm thinking it might be a plot point, after all it's an odd thing to change?

Oops, October isn't 8.

Fixed:
Satsuki: October 15th -> August 15th.
Mario: October 3rd -> August 3rd.

Shiki, Mio, and Arihiko were actually October birthdays tho.

Well, that's good to know. Glad we got that sorted out as soon as possible.

Man, I love how if you play through the game differently then when Shiki begins losing his mind there is eerily only Kohaku around to care for him.

And then you realize everyone in the house has been dead for at least 2 days and Kohaku has been covering it.

So many hints to the bizarre shit in this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Comun

Honestly, the most intriguing part of the interview to me was this:

https://i.imgur.com/Y81d6sD.png

Mario is a character who is still hiding his secrets but Nasu already spread all the hints the player needs to figure everything out. In fact, Nasu already found (a) theory post(s) that got the answer completely right.

Note also that the interview was published on the 28th but actually held on the 8th.

With that information and a very convenient lack of costumers today, I could check every Mario theory tweeted up until the 8th and learn what Nasu was talking about here. The results were interesting. I was expecting to see multiple answers and not be sure which was right, but it turned out that while the posts were wildly different in amount and choice of evidence, most of them had the same conclusion, and many of the ones saying different things back then already evolved their theories in the direction of this unified answer we got. I'm very confident that what I'm posting here is the truth Nasu indirectly confirmed in the interview.

Spoiler:

I'll start with Mario/Laurentis's backstory as laid out by the VN. Laurentis was a model cardinal of the Holy Church, considered to be the ideal candidate to be the next Pope if it weren't for one fatal flaw. Laurentis adopted over 20 sons or grandsons under a pretense of charity, but the adopted children looked too much like Laurentis himself for people to buy that, so the rumor spread that he was this lustful man ignoring his chastity vows to bang every woman he found. That's all that's openly said and all else is implied.

Mario's goal in Tsukihime is to find Roa and ask him about immortality, so he can either make his "(grand)father" Laurentis perfectly immortal, or remove his imperfect immortality (his curse of eternal youth). Roa's answer was that he became a vampire because it's impossible to get immortal while retaining his humanity, and the vulture who scavenged his documents and ignored this clearly written detail got what was coming to them.

Later in Roa's flashback talk with Nrvnqsr, Roa explain to his friend that he shifted his research subjected from the body to the soul because "the 'eternal youth' he was working with was retrogression itself". So the conclusion of the theories is that Mario and all of his older brothers are actually Laurentis himself aging backwards like Benjamin Button because he used Roa's eternal youth magecraft without caring about the drawbacks.

Most of the other bits of evidence presented around are mismatches in either time, relationships, and identity. Going over them one by one:

- Time: Mario is stated to be 12 but claims to be acquainted with Arcueid and to have experience pacifying a rampaging True Ancestor before, but those are both impossible because Arcueid's last activity was 13 years before. He also called the brother saved by Ciel a "brat not even on his 20s", which a very unnatural thing for 12-year-old younger brother to say. In the confrontation against Roa, he also talks about not having much time left to live, even though he's the youngest character here.

- Relationships: Arcueid and Ciel technically don't know Mario, but Mario talks to them like he knows them on a personal level, at least enough to recognize the huge changes in Arcueid's post-Shiki personality and say Ciel is "still merciless as always". He uses "reading his (grand)father's files" as an excuse for his knowledge, but Arcueid clearly recognizes him by the "familiar smell of a Laurentis child", and Ciel makes a point to compare him to the brother whose life she saved in their first encounter.

- Identity: The thing I found the most curious about Mario in my own playthrough of Arc's route was how his motivations were completely not about himself. He was fighting for his father's goal as if they were his own. His hatred and disappointment at Roa's answer felt personal like he was the one who depended on it. In my playthrough I though he just loved his father that much, but the theory reframes his portrayal into something a lot more natural. And then there's his conversation with Shiki on the Ciel Normal End that practically spells everything out:


Miscellaneous extra evidence:
- Mario is constantly stated to be 12, but his materials list his age as "12-14 (estimated)".
- One of his dislikes is "the brother immediately before him", instead of the much more naturally worded "the brother immediately older than him".
- Laurentis is retired and hidden from the public.
- Laurentis is described as "human manipulator", which is something Mario's Piano Machine makes literal.

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I talked to people on Discord about this when the interview came out and this is about the same conclusion we eventually reached.

In other words; I think you are right.

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Originally Posted by Petrikow

I talked to people on Discord about this when the interview came out and this is about the same conclusion we eventually reached.

In other words; I think you are right.

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Yeah, honestly makes Mario so interesting. What a good way to introduce the church. Imagine Shiki working under him kek. I feel like they'd get along really well.

"Suge’s personal favorite is Arcueid’s “I love him” scene. That’s a scene personally requested by Nasu to be added to the then finished script because of an inspiring line he read on volume 8 of the Tsukihime manga. And then he asked Kegani for the piano version of Seimeisen."

So based. They are so upfront about their inspirations it's crazy to me

It was a very cute scene. One of the best.

we need to see more Church higher ups like cardinals or even pope himself.

personally I want to see Noi and Andrei (2 tops of Burial Agency).

Isn't Noi the pope in Fate? At least in GO. That's a big diff from Tsuki. Maybe they opted to make him a monster of the burial agency for the setting dominated by apostles.

Does the Burial Agency even exist in non-Tsuki or mixed timelines, if Noi isn't in it in GO?

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

Isn't Noi the pope in Fate? At least in GO. That's a big diff from Tsuki. Maybe they opted to make him a monster of the burial agency for the setting dominated by apostles.

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Noi was not Pope in FGO, Kotomine called him priest.

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Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable

Does the Burial Agency even exist in non-Tsuki or mixed timelines, if Noi isn't in it in GO?

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Roa was the founder of BA so there's little chance it could not exist.

Oh right, and it was before he turned, so him meeting Arc or not would have no effect.

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Originally Posted by AmADo VII

Noi was not Pope in FGO, Kotomine called him priest.

Roa was the founder of BA so there's little chance it could not exist.

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Roas not the same though so maye not.
Isn't Noi called Pontifex? I guess it could just mean priest though the popes twitter is literally @pontifex

Kotomine refers Noi as 司祭 which means priest. Pope in Japanese is 法王

Pontifex apparently just refers to a member of the ancient Roman college of priests, but I suppose now it's just another word for priest.

Seems so. Looks like Pontifex Maximus was the term for pope.

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

Roas not the same though so maye not.
Isn't Noi called Pontifex? I guess it could just mean priest though the popes twitter is literally @pontifex

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Isn't the only major difference is he decides to become DA by science instead of seeking out true ancestors?

So he's a weakling in fate worlds not having arcueids power but it would not matter to him creating the burial agency

He's obviously still related to the church though would the agency exist without DAA now?

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

He's obviously still related to the church though would the agency exist without DAA now?

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ppl like Zouken or Darius are still dangerous to Church.

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

He's obviously still related to the church though would the agency exist without DAA now?

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Why wouldn't it? Vampires and DAs are still a thing and still deny human history in Fate, so they're still a threat.

Reading BA description they sounded more like the french foreign legion of the Church. Basically has outsiders as members for the same exact job as executors which is to hunt down heretics, only they have more leeway

Havent see anything explicit that ties them to TAs or even DAAs and even then superior vampires still exist in fate worlds which ive been informed is said to be written in the same way as rank 7 DAs

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Originally Posted by Inuhanyou

Isn't the only major difference is he decides to become DA by science instead of seeking out true ancestors?

So he's a weakling in fate worlds not having arcueids power but it would not matter to him creating the burial agency

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To be fair he's still probably giga strong in a proper reincarnation due to being the most talented super mage ever.

Arcueid sucking his blood just takes him from that to being the guy who Arc and the church needs to team up to fight and beat.

Perhaps with the future inclusion of the Church Timeline Nasu has hinted at we might get a bit more context on the Burial Agency?

It'd make sense for the Church to set up a "whoever who is strong" group to fight the Clock Tower and non-human existences in general in Fate timelines too. They're weaker than the Clock Tower to begin with after all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_eYAEFcU3A

If anyone's interested

Good thing they showed off Vlov: IV in the video.

It's the best track in the game.

Saber in Melty. Not surprised but I wonder if there will be a reason.

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Originally Posted by Nanaya

Saber in Melty. Not surprised but I wonder if there will be a reason.

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the reason is French Bread already made Saber sprite for another game. but since Type-Lumina came into development they asked Kinoko to make Saber join the game

Kinoko accepted it and he will make a lore explanation for it.

That OST Art Cover is cool.

Guess we'll finally be able to say Shiki can kill servants.

Simplest bullshit for why Roa's legs crumbled with the hallway is that Shiki killed space, the space the hallway(and roa's legs) was occupying therefore it crumbled rather than killing the hallway therefore it collapsed. Well, space , texture, whichever Nasu chooses... Maybe texture to not need to explain why the area isnt a void in reality now.

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Originally Posted by madarra

Simplest bullshit for why Roa's legs crumbled with the hallway is that Shiki killed space, the space the hallway(and roa's legs) was occupying therefore it crumbled rather than killing the hallway therefore it collapsed. Well, space , texture, whichever Nasu chooses... Maybe texture to not need to explain why the area isnt a void in reality now.

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By that logic, can Shiki just technically "open" a hole and go to another parallel world / "texture"? Shiki can use 2nd magic now? That's OP

It's the MEoDP, not the Subtle Knife.

2nd magic and textures arent the same thing. Especially with glossary saying everything requisitions texture/map data

He can go to Avalon though /s

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Originally Posted by madarra

2nd magic and textures arent the same thing. Especially with glossary saying everything requisitions texture/map data

He can go to Avalon though /s

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Shirou : I can create swords and become edgy cynical servant!
Shiki : But CAN YOU GO TO AVALON and NTR ARTORIA like me?
Shirou :

dang... Shiki is badass now

Honestly, pretty sure killing the space in a limited area makes more sense then killing the texture, as the texture is the very laws of the world, with space being included in there, so removing them would cause far more problems then simply a void of space.

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Originally Posted by Wishy-Washy

Honestly, pretty sure killing the space in a limited area makes more sense then killing the texture, as the texture is the very laws of the world, with space being included in there, so removing them would cause far more problems then simply a void of space.

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so, "texture" is essentially "similar" to lostbelt? Or is it different?

The Lostbelts were created when the Alien God bleached the surface of the Age of Man, and brought back the Lostbelts so their Textures would replace it and create an environment more suitable for its descent.

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Originally Posted by Comun

Nasu's claim back in the olden days is that he couldn't release Satsuki's route because it was too perfect and it would overshadow all other routes, and I believe he has the moral duty to prove his words true.

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Out of curiosity, was there ever a source for this?

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Originally Posted by Wishy-Washy

Honestly, pretty sure killing the space in a limited area makes more sense then killing the texture, as the texture is the very laws of the world, with space being included in there, so removing them would cause far more problems then simply a void of space.

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So should this use a different word than textures?

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Originally Posted by Leftovers

Event Storage

An ability of the True Ancestors, the planet's sense of touch. The conceptual and physical storage of things reared on the planet's surface. Every creature that has appeared on the face of the planet——it is something that requisitions textures.

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Admitedly a hallway is not a creature.

Not sure what your trying to say here, of course every creature, and hallway, needs the laws and physics Textures provide.

so how much different will the first days be in red garden, will they copy and paste?

There are clear Akiha, Hisui, Kohaku, and Satsuki flags on the first days. They’ll most likely be kept as they are.