Because when Archer makes "Durandal" he's going: Okay everyone, this thing is the actual legendary sword. All the design specs check out. Don't look to closely."Originally Posted by shiningphoenix
For Excalibur the design specs of his don't match up, so it's harder to pass as the real deal.
Dahell does Durandal even do aside from looking really cool?
I wonder if Shirou, being made of swords, is extra good in bed or anything as compared to a normal man.
Then you are bad at making conclusions.
We have no information what exactly Alaya gave Archer. It's pretty obvious that Shirou can master UBW without contract with Alaya (UBW route), so her interference might have just augmented him physically and gave him more magical energy.
Why are you comparing them? It's obvious that Archer surpasses Shirou in terms of experience, physical strength and overall combat capacity. What I am talking about is the differences in their Reality Marbles.
1. Just to refresh it, Nasu's interview about Excalibur being non-replicable.
Q: What is the limit of replication in UBW? The highest level of NP (sword types) is probably Ea, but while it might be impossible for Shirou, could Archer make it? Also, under the meaning of weapons, to what extent can he make modern weapons? Must it be only blade types or can he make guns and mobile weapons?
A: Divine constructs like Ea and Excalibur are non-replicable. There might be some degraded NPs with similar performance in stock though. Also, since sword is becoming his origin, the weapons that he has stored are fundamentally limited to close combat.
Bolded for emphasis. The question was about limits of UBW, and it was stated that Divine Constructs are non-replicable.
2. Now, let me quote the novel.
First of all, Shirou is aware that he has Reality Marble. That's pretty obvious, since if he hadn't Reality Marble, he couldn't have projected NPs.
Secondly, he notes that he can't use UBW, because their inner worlds are different.
Thirdly, to use NPs from Archer arm he had to search it within Unlimited Blade Works and reproduce it on it's own. It's definitely not like UBW!Shirou who was able to simply pull stuff out Reality Marble (Rho Aias in vs Gilgamesh).
Now more quotes.
HF, day 16, Sparks Liner High.
"I still haven't comprehended their full capabilities.
I'm going to pull out Archer's tactics and Kanshou and Bakuya's true nature.
-----
The instant I connect myself to Archer's arm the remaning forty percent of my mind reduced to twenty
Find it, find it, find it.
It has to be there.
The method I couldn't come up with, the stance that will guarantee a kill should exist.
He favored these swords.
Then there's no way he hasn't come up with an ultimate attack to get him through the countless battles!
Ten percent left.
Leaving myself behind, I draw from the well of experience".
HF, Day 16, Burst Out.
At that instant, I stop time.
I accelerate all my processes, disguising this instant as eternity.
Search, select, analyse, project.
That's my role.
In both cases, he had to directly connect himself with Archer's arm and retrieve necessary infromation. "I have to search within Unlimited Blade Works" exactly. Note, that he don't have to always search images within UBW, meaning that he can project something without it's database.
Now, compare it how Excalibur was projected. It was projected in similiar way to Rule Breaker, Kanshou and Byakuy, Berserkers axe sword and other regular projections, so I would argue that he didn't have to searh it within UBW, but rather used his own experience from his Reality Marble.
Last edited by Blastedspider; April 6th, 2014 at 04:51 AM.
UBW route, day 16, Unlimited Blade Works.
"This is Emiya Shirou's world.
A Reality Marble.
It is the greatest forbidden magic that embodies the caster's internal world.
This is heroic spirit Emiya's Noble Phantasm and the only weapon I possess."
Dat dorama
Blastedspider: HF!Shirou doesn't use UBW, it's stated in the novel.
Guac: UBW Shirou and EMIYA deviated so much from each other, yet the Reality Marble remained largely unchanged (if anything but functioanlly).
Blastedspider: They are using the same Reality Marble, it's stated in the novel.
Guac: Good work, you just proved your theory is shit.
...
>the embodiment of the mental worldI know the scope of my power.
<<...>>
A Reality Marble that inverts world engraved on your soul, the embodiment of the mental world using theory of magic, the world egg.
<<...>>>
Reality Marble "Unlimited Blade Works", isn't usable.
Archer's world and mine are different, I can't reproduce it.
>Archer's world and mine are different
Thing is, when he's going on about Archer's world being different from his, we already knew that--because UBW makes the point over and over that they're separate existences. Their worlds are different, entirely changed by experience and superpowered Alaya fuckery (he even points out that he can't completely copy Archer's STR). But if it wasn't UBW, why then is he talking about reproducing only "what Emiya Shirou has learned or the Noble Phantasms he has recorded"? He's just pointing out that he can't deploy UBW because his computer was built for Windows XP, and Archer is running 8.
Localizationing stuff
Except Shirou saps his knowledge, memory and experience because Shirou is Archer's previous self.
UBW, day 16, Unlimited Blade Works.Their worlds are different, entirely changed by experience and superpowered Alaya fuckery (he even points out that he can't completely copy Archer's STR)
"This is Emiya Shirou's world.
A Reality Marble.
It is the greatest forbidden magic that embodies the caster's internal world.
This is heroic spirit Emiya's Noble Phantasm and the only weapon I possess.
Everything is here, and nothing is here.
That is why this is called Unlimited Blade Works
This is the only definite answer obtained by the one who lived as a sword all his life".
I think that kind of implies that regardless of how different UBW!Shirou and Archer are, the former, unlike HF counterpart, is compatible with UBW.
He can't reproduce the hill of swords. But he can use Archer's knowledge as database. As he did in Sparks Liner High (extracted knowledge about Crane Wing) or in Burst out (extracted image of Rho Aius).But if it wasn't UBW, why then is he talking about reproducing only "what Emiya Shirou has learned or the Noble Phantasms he has recorded"?
It says because their inner world's are different, not because he is lacking experience.HF Shirou did not get the osmosis from EMIYA, so actually popping his own reality marble will not happen.
Last edited by Blastedspider; April 6th, 2014 at 06:14 AM.
And UBW Shirou and EMIYA's internal worlds are different as well. Both are still UBW. If UBW Shirou tried to manifest EMIYA's UBW, it would work no better for him than for HF Shirou, because Shirou =/= EMIYA
Last edited by forumghost; April 6th, 2014 at 06:18 AM.
Except he did?
"Heroic Spirit Emiya Noble Phantam and the only weapon I possess", "the only definitive answer obtained by someone who lived as the sword all his life", eh?
>It was brought forth with a different Aria
>It maintained a (albeit slightly) different appearance
>It was realized through a different understanding
In short, they are not the same, even though they are.
So?
It was called UBW, he said that it was Emiya's Noble Phantasm and definitive answer for him.
While in HF he flat out states that ge can't use Unlimited Blade Works.
He cannot use Archer's Unlimited Blade Works- the one contained in his arm. That doesn't mean that he no longer has his own version.
All Shirou's- Fate!Shirou, UBW!Shirou, HF!Shirou, EMIYA, etc... all have their own 'UBW'. But even though it's the same thing, they cannot use each others, because each version of 'Shirou' has a slightly different set of life experiences, which means their internal world is slightly different.
Last edited by forumghost; April 6th, 2014 at 07:06 AM.
Think of it like this, programs often have a Mac version and a PC version - but if you get the wrong one, it won't work despite having the same functions because the way it works is different.
Shirou's a PC and can't run Archer's Mac version UBW, he needs to run his own PC version UBW.
I just woke up so if that metaphor made no sense that's why.
Okay, we are starting to move in circles. I'll try to digest my point.
1. We have two versions of Emiya Shirou Reality Marble. One is used by Archer, another one by UBW!Shirou. Despite cosmetic differences, they seems to be largely the same, and the latter is devised by Shirou using memory, experience and techniques borrowed from Archer.
2. According to Nasu UBW can't replicate Excalibur, which contradicts HF finale, where Shirou uses Excalibur to blast the Holy Grail.
3. I am arguing that this means that in HF Shirou is not using UBW, but his own yet nameless and unrealised Reality Marble.
Guac also proposed that he is using "copy deviated from the object so much that it had become unrecognizable". I find this explanation far-fetched, since where are no instances when degraded copy isn't considered to be copy anymore. Caladbolg and Hruting modified into arrows are Caladbolg and Hruting (albeit Caladbolg has number II attached to it), inferior copies of already inferior copies of Kansho and Byakuya are still called by Kansho and Byakuya etc.
shiningphoenix proposed this resolution: "no, UBW can, actually, do Excalibur, or at least close enough". But is contradicted by Excalibur Image from CCC, fragmented and degraded version of Excalibur, visibly lacking original destructive forepower, but still impossible to create outside the Moon Cell.
Did I miss anything important?
Only that Nasu saying that "there might be some degraded NPs with similar performance [to Excalibur] in stock" proves that there is no contradiction in HF to warrant wank of this magnitude.
No, it doesn't say that.
"Inheritance of battle technique, experience, physical strength from Archer.
Correction. Failed to read physical strength. I'll still would be killed in one blow.
Reality Marble, Unlimited Blade Works, isn't usable.
Archer world and mine are different, I can't reproduce it".
Basically, he tried to apply Archer's memory to himself and found that he is not compatible with that technique.
- - - Updated - - -
The novel says "I'll use the strongest sword I know" and we see CG for Black Excalibur then he thinks "the sword in my hand".
Last edited by Blastedspider; April 6th, 2014 at 07:31 AM.
Ya, since that was what he was trying to project, what sword would pop up in his head? And he really did his best, for a brain damaged dude, and brought forth the closest thing to that. Where's the contradiction again?
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