That reminds me, according to rakkyo's explanation, Shirou was a sword in a past life? More importantly, if Araya Souren awakened Saber's origin, she would gain the characteristics of a dragon? A Saber that generates prana just by breathing sounds pretty awesome.
Shirou's origin is *becoming* sword (thanks to Avalon); before that he presumably had some other (unknown) originOriginally Posted by agentzero
Sabre is not dragon incarnate, she has dragon blood in her, as in her ancestor was a dragon.
Also, Lio's Origin was "to consume". Origin does not care what it becomes. Origin is simply an impulse, and everything has an Origin, otherwise it would not exist.
It doesn't really need to be explain why "Lio became a human this life instead of an animal", it just happened by chance. He could have been a Venus' Flytrap for all we know.
Kohaku's past life confirmed for sunflower?
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
I thought it was his attribute that was becoming sword, but now that I look back it seems it's both. But then there's the whole "how does an origin change" discussion...Shirou's origin is *becoming* sword (thanks to Avalon); before that he presumably had some other (unknown) origin
Could've sworn they called her the "incarnation of a dragon" somewhere, though that may have been referring to her blood. Was it actually clarified in one of the side materials?Sabre is not dragon incarnate, she has dragon blood in her, as in her ancestor was a dragon.
Also, Lio's Origin was "to consume". Origin does not care what it becomes. Origin is simply an impulse, and everything has an Origin, otherwise it would not exist.
About Lio's origin, Touko did to link origins to previous lives in the rakkyo movies IIRC, dunno what she said about it in the books though.
Could you clarify where it says Saber has dragon blood, because the mirror moon translation says "karma of the dragon" and everyone I have seen on this forum has referred to her as a "reincarnation of a dragon" (I think).
Also the movie says that because Lio's origin is consumption one then knows, apparently, that all his previous lives must have been carnivorous animals and it is because of these memories reawakening that he is essentially becoming a pack of animals (sound familiar to another Type-Moon antagonist). I always thought that sounded weird since that implied only carnivores could consume.
@agent zero
perhaps the origin changes in the same way that the body is apparently able to affect the soul and vice-verse with neither having precedence over the other (or at least that is the impression I got from fuyuki)
It was dragon genes/blood, definitely not reincarnation. The two are quite different.
Lio's Origin is "to consume", so Touko thought his previous lives were predatory animals. As far as we know, Origin is nonspecific. Basically the Origin emerges from the Spiral of Origin, and attracts a bunch of matter, and becomes a "thing". That's why Lio can be anything that "consumes", human, animal, Venus' Flytrap.
Sauce damnit.
Also now we need a new explanation for Lio going nuts and slowly losing his personality since the past life memories are out.
Can't find anything about karma but there's something calling Saber "竜の化身" which MM translates as "incarnation of a dragon".
Your probably right. I know I saw karma of the dragon somewhere, must have been one of aria's translations.
Back when we first had the debate about origins changing, I thought the line of thinking about Shirou really "dying" in the fire was interesting. In the same way that his "death" emptied him so that when he was filled back up with Kiritsugu's ideal it completely defined him, it's possible that the Emiya Shirou who was revived by Avalon was something like a completely new person, and Avalon contributed to his origin. Well, that's about as good a I can put it, I think someone else worded it better. It's an interesting theory.@agent zero
perhaps the origin changes in the same way that the body is apparently able to affect the soul and vice-verse with neither having precedence over the other (or at least that is the impression I got from fuyuki)
The recurrent word used is "竜の因子", or "Dragon Factor". It can mean genes, blood, or whatever "carrier" factor you got.
Arai probably was unsure as to how to pin this down so he put karma.
I like the improbable theory that Shirou is an Avenger copy of some Irish kid who was mind wiped by the runes of oblivion, which is why he has red hair instead of memories and records of his past. Everyone is just to nice to mention to him he isn't Japanese.
Edit: plus that would have probably have made his origin " ", and then Avalon stabilized his existence and gave him a new origin.
What terrraablaze trying to argue is "Sabre is Dragon Reincarnated (as in she was a dragon in previous life)". The phrase you put up means "Dragon Incarnate/Personified".
They are entirely different in Nasuverse context.
Just what I always heard, also not sure how else I was supposed to interpret the two sources on how she got her crazy magic capacity.
So what is "Dragon Personified" even supposed to mean? I have some Neanderthal genes, does that make me a Neanderthal Incarnated?
*adds Saber's profile to food's list of Too Translate*
She's Dragon Incarnate because she shares the Dragon's ability to produce mana without a circuit.
The blood that runs around her body produces mana.
W
T
F
Since when?!?
Why am I just now hearing about this? I thought it just gave her a large odo capacity.
Ability to generate mana as a Servant explained I guess.
I thought it was common knowledge?
We've been throwing around this "dragon blood" jargon for years, I assumed everybody knows.
Saber has a circuit. Read the Return of the King of Knights scene.
The Hall of Selected Cruor Praise
I think he is referring to the generation of odo not the storage.
@food
As I pointed out I always used dragon reincarnation and generally read something similar (maybe I just filtered dragons blood as a short hand for transmigration of a dragon)
Edit: everyone who did not know come forward and raise your hand, and then tell us because I can't see you through the internet
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