Pretty sure Zouken didn't have the crest yeah? I believed they abandoned the crest long ago to have worms as the replacement.
Pretty sure Zouken didn't have the crest yeah? I believed they abandoned the crest long ago to have worms as the replacement.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
well shirou didnt use his circuit over, for years, and he needs only several days to get used to it and for it to go back 100%, tho to begin with its already not that good of a circuit
i wouldnt call that atrophy but you can say its a small scale atrophy so ???
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Well, for one, it isn't exactly specified what the requirements are to be able to do it, so in turn why couldn't Shakes and Anderson do it?Originally Posted by 8000
And while we don't exactly know why, the fact that its Shakes and Anderson that can do it probably has something to do with their Noble Phantasms. Phantoms are closely tied to the idea of a localized story.
Localizationing stuff
Its Baal the demon pillar fault.
No srsly you can always be sure its the demon pillar fault.
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Currently (like, actually) finishing Apocrypha 3
I don't have an issue with them being able to summon Phantoms, I have an issue with them never doing so in previous appearances. Shakespeare is even stated to have no capabilities in battle by the mats (and I believe Andersen has a similar statement), and summoning would be a helpful ability in battle. Which is why I was wondering if there was context. I know Shakespeare was half-altered so maybe that was part of it, and I could buy Andersen having arranged it in advance via his NP.
If there was no context then I guess in-universe they never told anyone they could do it because they're trolls...which admittedly wouldn't be that out of character.
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Wait is it actually Baal's fault?
Baal does a thing
Shakes and Anderson are like, oh, that's a good idea
Localizationing stuff
How would that be useful? Phantoms are weak as shit that can't even materialize on their own. Whether Shakes or Hans had the capabilities to do so before is irrelevant since without Baals meddling summoning Phantoms would do you very little good. Also with backup Shakes can summon a Servant, they just be so weak that they would do little to anything if I remember those facts correctly I think.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
it was shinjuku
shit was going haywire
everything shakes was writing like romeo and juliet and king lear were turning alter and real enough to fight you
btw those you fight aren't phantoms
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
I'm pretty sure someone - maybe Rin? - mentions the reason for the Matous' decline is that the land of Japan didn't agree with their magic, or something similar.
Last edited by SpoonyViking; November 23rd, 2017 at 05:23 PM.
That's the official Matou statement, comparable to "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
Localizationing stuff
that's true but the matou were already declining before that.
so the japan compatibility doesn't even matter.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
^this basically.
The stuff I said comes from Zouken's monolouge during the end of the Heavens Feel, where he was dying he was trying to rationalize the original reason why he wanted immortality
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Oh, I didn't remember that part. Sorry!
Well, it was in decline, but moving hastened the process, so it’s not that it didn’t matter.
I don't want to die
But that's not why.
It's not that the Japanese soil didn't suit them.
The Makiri didn't die out because of an external factor.
They merely dropped out.
It has been three hundred years since the start of their search.
Three hundred years was their limit.
The family died out in Zouken's generation.
The suffering started there, and the old man could do nothing but deny the truth.
Matou Zouken's life was a frantic protest against the end of the Makiri bloodline.
....
zouken was basically the last generation.
Japan was bad for the family but the family was already dead at zouken's generation.
So the compatibility doesn't even matter. There was no process to hasten because it was already finished when they got to japan.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Yeah that's right, also changing location does seem to be the catalyst for the decline for many mage family's it seems. I remember there was a family in Ygg that was like that also I think Kairi's family was also like that tho I don't remember.
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Snipe kinda, tho appears I was a little wrong.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
In SF it sounded it was common for mage families eventually fall into decline (magic circuit/crest-wise) because the Clock Tower viewed the fact that Escardos circuits/crest stability as a potential threat because it never declined despite its age.
Makes me wonder if they have something like a maximum they can reach, and once they reach it, it starts dropping after? Though how it's stated in FSN sounds like it's a temporal thing?
Didn't Olock I believe he was called said something about his crest dying from how old it is?
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
So was Kariya basically the equivalent of a first generation Magus just popping up?
Since he had at least OK circuits IIRC.
The Phantoms wouldn’t be useful, the King Lears and Macbeths would be. If he could only summon those because he was altered that would make sense.
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