Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Kotonoha]

He's not even in Grand Order, get your spinoffs right

[Seika]

Ah I see. So Medea's original Master was some fat guy, Atram doesn't exist, and everything else he appears in is some sort of mass hallucination we're all having.

I mean, yes?

[SeiKeo]

[Kotonoha]

I mean, yes?

retconned by case files if not by ufoUBW tbh

[Sandstorm77]

I haven't watched HF but in the UBW anime:

• Shirou fought Gilgamesh at range just as much as up close.
• He ran out of energy before he could beat him instead of Saber breaking them out of the reality marble.
• Kojiro's sword never bent.
• Archer and Shirou fought in the reality marble and Archer did not use Durundal.
• Gae Bolg had a much closer struggle with Rho Aias whereas in the VN it didn't even slow down before piercing the first six petals.

And that's ignoring changes which don't make contradictions in the mechanics like Archer using random swords against Caster instead of NP projections. And I haven't read the Zero LNs but it sounds like there were some differences in Kirei vs Kiritsugu.

I mean none of the things you pointed out make any contradiction to mechanics either since it’s just things to make the visual more theatrical.

[Trubo]

Shirou fought Gilgamesh at range just as much as up close.

To make the fight more dramatic to watch, albeit stupid. Largely trivial since nothing important was changed.

He ran out of energy before he could beat him instead of Saber breaking them out of the reality marble.

UBW was already collapsing, Excalibur just sealed the deal.

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20232/

The light coming from the lake eliminates the hill of swords.
A great magical energy has smashed away the already-disappearing Reality Marble.

Kojiro's sword never bent.

Archer and Shirou fought in the reality marble and Archer did not use Durundal.

First thing you've mentioned that's somewhat significant. Again though, largely trivial, as the point was to show Archer accepting Shirou's resolve, which was done quite well with Archer's UBW's sky changing.

Gae Bolg had a much closer struggle with Rho Aias whereas in the VN it didn't even slow down before piercing the first six petals.

What are you even talking about here?

VN version of Lance of sure hit/Shield of no loss

The lance crashes into the shield.
The lance of death that penetrates every wall and outmaneuvers any evasion.
That lance has been stopped.
Radiating a storm of heat, the lance of sure kill is stopped by Archer's "Noble Phantasm".
The seven flower petals appear from empty space and shield Archer from the demonic bullet!

Who would know?
This shield is Aius. The only shield said to have repelled the javelin of the great hero in the Trojan War.
There are seven barriers shaped like flower petals, and each layer is as strong as a castle wall.
It is a boundary field Noble Phantasm that is said to be invincible against projectile weapons.

A thrown lance will be defeated by this shield without penetrating even one of the petals.
At the very least, Archer does not know of a lance that can penetrate this shield.

But.
The lance of sure kill drills through the shields like it's nothing.

"……!!!!!"
The sixth petal is destroyed.
Only one remains.
The demonic lance reaches the seventh layer that has never been broken.

The unstoppable thorn of the demonic lance.
In the face of that power…

Anime version of Lance of sure hit/Shield of no loss



Please, tell me, where the difference is with Gae Bulg destroying Rho Aias?

And that's ignoring changes which don't make contradictions in the mechanics like Archer using random swords against Caster instead of NP projections.

What? The VN explains that he uses K&B the entire time until after he startles Caster to release the gravity trap thing she was doing, before then switching to BP Caladbolg. That is exactly what is shown in the anime.

https://i.imgur.com/VO5UR1G.png
https://i.imgur.com/SWWP7IZ.png
https://i.imgur.com/OwC2FyH.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZCTbAse.png
https://i.imgur.com/Um2fnnE.png
https://i.imgur.com/2UhNpYt.png

And I haven't read the Zero LNs but it sounds like there were some differences in Kirei vs Kiritsugu.

Can't comment in great detail on the Zero anime since I haven't watched it, but the only thing coming to mind is the Bat Cave fight between Kiritsugu and Kotomine. Pretty sure it's still the same location as where the LN described the fight as being, just different interior because budget.

UBW anime also contradicts HA. Bazett talks about fighting Caster with Lancer at the temple a few times, though UBW clearly shows that's impossible

Which scene is this?

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He's not even in Grand Order, get your spinoffs right

CEs count though, no? Worked for Kayneth and Miyu at least.

[8000]

He appears in Lord El Melloi II case files so yes he exists, but how Medea killed him was changed in the anime so the VN explanation would be the canon one.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Also Apo and Deen Stay Night are equally official as far as I know so yeah.

DEEN was not written by the original writer

Apo was

[Sandstorm77]

What? The VN explains that he uses K&B the entire time until after he startles Caster to release the gravity trap thing she was doing, before then switching to BP Caladbolg. That is exactly what is shown in the anime.

I think it’s about when archer kills her. Which is more just because the vn reuses CGs. Tho if you wanna take it super seriously and detailed him using more normal stuff can be chalked up as the reason he has enough gas to use UBW when fighting shirou i guess.

[Kotonoha]

He appears in Lord El Melloi II case files so yes he exists, but how Medea killed him was changed in the anime so the VN explanation would be the canon one.

So Nasu saying something in an interview: canon, Nasu writing a scene for an adaptation: not canon, got it

[Seika]

retconned by case files if not by ufoUBW tbh

These don't sound canon.

[Trubo]

I think it’s about when archer kills her. Which is more just because the vn reuses CGs. Tho if you wanna take it super seriously and detailed him using more normal stuff can be chalked up as the reason he has enough gas to use UBW when fighting shirou i guess.

That's still dumb, considering that those generic looking swords are still projected NPs.

DEEN was not written by the original writer

Apo was

Was going to say that at least the DEEN stuff can still be found on the Type-Moon website's shop, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Poor DEEN/SN, joined the ranks of "and we'll never talk about this again" with JC Staff's Tsukihime.

[Kotonoha]

These don't sound canon.

One of them is, the other one depends on how much stock you put into blu-ray bonus script drafts

[8000]

To make the fight more dramatic to watch, albeit stupid. Largely trivial since nothing important was changed.

Quite a bit was changed because it makes UBW much more powerful in the anime.

UBW was already collapsing, Excalibur just sealed the deal.

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20232/

Point is Shirou won on his own in the VN and did not in the anime.

Cracked hilt is different from bent sword but I suppose I can go with that.

First thing you've mentioned that's somewhat significant. Again though, largely trivial, as the point was to show Archer accepting Shirou's resolve, which was done quite well with Archer's UBW's sky changing.

Discussing what the point is is unimportant as it doesn't actually change facts.

What are you even talking about here?

It says "the lance of sure kill drills through the shields like it's nothing" with regards to the first six. It was a significantly closer struggle getting through the first six in the anime.

What? The VN explains that he uses K&B the entire time until after he startles Caster to release the gravity trap thing she was doing, before then switching to BP Caladbolg. That is exactly what is shown in the anime.

Not what I'm talking about. I mean when he kills her.

Can't comment in great detail on the Zero anime since I haven't watched it, but the only thing coming to mind is the Bat Cave fight between Kiritsugu and Kotomine. Pretty sure it's still the same location as where the LN described the fight as being, just different interior because budget.

The manner Kirei blocked the bullets was also very different from what I've heard.

[forumghost]

Look people, we've been over this. Any inconsistencies/changes between Nasu works that you find are because it's a (very slight) AU, that's all.

Everything is Canon. The Truth is a Lie.

[8000]

DEEN was not written by the original writer

Apo was

So just Apo then.

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I mean none of the things you pointed out make any contradiction to mechanics either since it’s just things to make the visual more theatrical.

Some of them do actually contradict the mechanics because they change how powerful the characters are relative to each other.

Also didn't mention Archer sniping Hercules in UBW from what looked like quite a bit more than 4 kilometers.

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So Nasu saying something in an interview: canon, Nasu writing a scene for an adaptation: not canon, got it

Yes because statements in interviews apply to the original VN universe. Scenes in the anime apply to a completely different multiverse as far as I'm concerned.

[Seika]

One of them is, the other one depends on how much stock you put into blu-ray bonus script drafts

If I can't read them or I don't like them, they're not canon. Still sounds non-canon.

[Kotonoha]

yer mum's not canon

[8000]

Look people, we've been over this. Any inconsistencies/changes between Nasu works that you find are because it's a (very slight) AU, that's all.

Everything is Canon. The Truth is a Lie.

I think "alternate multiverse" would be the better term because the Nasuverse already has canon AUs that keep consistent with mechanics. Either way the anime should be treated as its own thing and separate from the source material unless Nasu clarifies otherwise (like Herc vs Calabolg).

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Also in UBW Kirei had multiple command seals but he said he only had one in the HF route, although I don't know if the Zero LNs retconned that first.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Also in UBW Kirei had multiple command seals but he said he only had one in the HF route, although I don't know if the Zero LNs retconned that first.

Because he only had one. He used the others to operate on Sakura.