Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[SpoonyViking]

If need be, just go the JoJo route and give physical appearances to those effects. It's not as if Servants and magi can't see supernatural phenomena, right?

[Deathhappens]

all I can respond to that with is don't play 3.5

Spoiler:

Eh, even that could've been spectacular if the Giant wasn't saving on the budget (see: stick webcomic). And the Save-or-Die's were mostly Cleric's domain, Wizards and Sorcs had and have plenty of blasting to do as well (though it's generally regarded as inefficient).

[fire_mountain_30]

If need be, just go the JoJo route and give physical appearances to those effects. It's not as if Servants and magi can't see supernatural phenomena, right?

Itachi. Vs sasuke fake fight was fun

[You]

Do Aoko's magic missiles count as that, or are they still "regular" spells?

it would seem so

Aoko's magic missiles are a simple spell expression of using her circuits as the barrel of a gun to fire magic energy.
This isn't the natural interference of causing wind, dividing water, accelerating aging.
She processes the imaginary kinetic energy that is magic energy into actual existence, firing it as heat.
The result is that the destructive force is equal to the amount of magic energy Aoko can handle.
The magic missiles she used against Soujuurou are single actions, rudimentary magecraft not requiring incantations.
Currently, there are three actions of magic missiles that are Aoko's main weapons.

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I know it is dumb, hence the question of who even does it often.

In terms of servants, who else does it besides beam sword users?

anyone with vanilla prana burst

not all beams from beaswords are going to be pure magical energy either.

[Ratman]

Eh, even that could've been spectacular if the Giant wasn't saving on the budget (see: stick webcomic). And the Save-or-Die's were mostly Cleric's domain, Wizards and Sorcs had and have plenty of blasting to do as well (though it's generally regarded as inefficient).

That's kind of an odd way to approach making an argument, considering the entire joke is actively making fun of how incredibly boring, anticlimatic, unimpressive, visually underdescribed, and yet incredibly overpowered and therefore overly prolific the touch spells in D&D are. Unless they're Shocking Grasp or Chilling Touch, the two no one uses. This is what actually happens in real games.

I mean, you can point to Durkon vs. Malack to the same but more interesting. The point is made.

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Funnily enough, Magic is SUPPOSED to be like this in the Nasuverse, but never is.

Because it's not impressive.

[Dullahan]

turns out when you're fourteen beam swords and punching shit is the coolest ever

sadly Dark Bead shotgunning was yet to be invented when nasu wrote rin's gandr

[Ratman]

I mean, the absolute easiest thing to do here is to point to Tsukihime. The VN, and that side of the setting in general.

Magecraft used in Tsukihime takes the form of Ciel, one of the greatest magi on earth, going around hypnotizing people. She also uses it to heal wounds. This is subtle. This is a theme.
Then you have Roa, who is supposed to be a great Magus, but fights Shiki using a knife and Mystic Eyes, rather than lightning bolts or anything.
Then you have Marble Phantasm, which could be impressive, but takes the form of Arcueid just basically deleting Roa from existence.
Then you have Akiha's ribbons, which regular people don't even see. Plundering also ultimately just takes the form of deleting people and their bodyparts, or just freezing them a little. The red stuff is what people with Pure Eyes or maybe otherwise augmented vision can see.
In Kagetsu Tohya, you have Len, who nearly doesn't even exist in reality.
Even in Melty Blood, you have Sion, a Magus, who might as well just be a chick with a gun as far as onlookers are concerned.

This works very well for Tsukihime, because it is a subtle work with subtle themes. I'm not even joking.

In heroic fantasy, it's not enough, so we have swordbeams. Even Rin, who uses a 'curse', has it represented as shadowballs, because otherwise it would be boring.

[Dullahan]

it's almost as if....the lower the SFX budget...the more creative magic becomes...

[fire_mountain_30]

question

arent Nero Chaos and Tiamat both made from primordial chaos?

wouldnt that make Tiamat at least as durable as him?

[Ratman]

it's almost as if....the lower the SFX budget...the more creative magic becomes...

It's almost as if Tsukihime was made with a higher budget, it would actively work against it.

[Dullahan]

Make Nasu Poor Again

[Ratman]

We're basically comparing Blair Witch to capeshit, and I am trying to explain why both of those are tied to their budget in quality, inversely. There is a roof on a horror movie where a high budget makes it lose subtlety. In a superhero movie, subtlety is nice but you want beams and punching people through walls.

I wouldn't necessarily make Nasu poor if I could, but it's a big question whether he can think like a poor person for a bit (he might be able to), because you sort of need to think like a poor person to improve just the parts of it that need improving, and leave the rest alone.

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(While I am at it, Melty does a fantastic job keeping the subtle parts of Tsukihime subtle, but making them look impressive in a fighting game, ie Nanaya, Kouma, and a lot of the stages. It's great how the game only looks flashy when it makes sense for it to look flashy, depending on character and so, see Sion.)

[SpoonyViking]

Counterpoint: if I'm not mistaken, Nasu wrote KnK before Tsukihime, and there's some pretty flashy stuff there. Nothing on the level of a gigantic energy beam or anything, but reducing a bridge to rubble with psychic powers, for instance, isn't exactly on the subtler side.

[Ratman]

If anything, that's a counterpoint to the way magecraft manifests itself being tied to the budget.

He presumably wrote Alpha Mahoyo even before that, and that presumably had beams in it, because it's difficult to imagine Mahoyo without beams. KnK is more WoD level where you can still call much of it, including the bridge, just a gas leak, but more importantly, KnK is not very literal about itself. If you're reading it, it doesn't go 'and she moved at mach 3' like fate would. Of course, much of Paradox Spiral and Azaka's powers are still pretty flashy.

That hardly matters though, because this is a question of tone. I am just saying Fate needs to be flashy to align the style with the substance, and that's why everything is fireballs and giant glowing magic circles. It's a ridiculous story about greater than life people doing greater than life things.

[Blastedspider]

I am not sure if it was covered anywhere, but what is known about Nasuverse version of Atlantis at the moment, aside from being plundered by Drake and destroyed by Counter-Force?

[You]

I am not sure if it was covered anywhere, but what is known about Nasuverse version of Atlantis at the moment, aside from being plundered by Drake and destroyed by Counter-Force?

Seems like Atlantis will be the setting for the Greek LB.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Speaking of Lostbelts, is Ragnarok something that only could happen in the Norse LB, or is it destined to happen in more worlds or even all worlds?

[Ratman]

It happened in panhuman history as the explosion of a volcano, because apparently that's enough.

I guess we won't ever see the world snek, either.

[Zurvan]

Most if not all worlds probably

the difference was that it wasnt completed

[Noa]

Normal history Ragnarok was restricted to Norse territory right? Like Surtr didn't leave Scandinavia to kill other gods.