Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[AsGryffynn]

Because nasu wants to produce a discourse which is both (a) parasitic on and (b) independent of the historical archive and ultimately ends up doing neither

By now, I'm just treating Nasu as an ATL. We're the true "Prime" timeline, and everything else is just ASB territory.

[fire_mountain_30]

I have a more speculative lore question.

apparently to be a master you need some form of inborn potential

then we also have people like Rin, sakura and illya that can be "divine vessels" and we even get shiroumasa

so is the aptitude for being a master related to an inborn ability to handle spirits? would that mean that masters are essentially the people that have the inborn capacity to house a heroic spirit?

also, didnt Gray have an inborn ability to handle spirits and wasnt that one of the reasons why she was made into an artoria clone?

[Comun]

I think you're inverting cause and consequence. Those people you mentioned can be divine vessels because they we're Masters, according to Sitonai and Kama's comments about their own vessels.

[neveron]

Taiga, on the other hand, is just innately divine and purrfect.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

Taiga is the only person from the modern age who could legitimately enter the Throne of Heroes without some counter guardian bullshit.

[fire_mountain_30]

I think you're inverting cause and consequence. Those people you mentioned can be divine vessels because they we're Masters, according to Sitonai and Kama's comments about their own vessels.

no, no, i meant "do you think all masters are essentially potential vessels to some degree, with only the ones with the most aptitude being able to house heroic spirits?"

so, for example, Kadoc would have been born with a particular characteristic that made him compatible with spirits, even though he doesnt study spiritual invocation.

is that the reason why only some mages can be masters?

and going by that logic, what does that say about Gray considering we know her aptitude for spirits and the dead?

[Comun]

Yes, Master aptitude is indeed a factor that exists, but it's only indirectly connected to being a potential Pseudo-Servant vessel. Since the all the vessels are people whose lives where twisted by the Grail (or connected to Zhuge Liang's vessel if Zhuge uses Chu Shi Biao), being a Master in a Grail War is guaranteed to add you to the potential vessel list, but if someone just has Master aptitude and never sees a Grail in their lives, they're not getting on the list. Reines and Luvia are high level mages we can safely assume to have some degree of Master aptitude but they still were explictly of the list until Waver used his "add names to the list" Noble Phantasm.

[All fictions]

also, didnt Gray have an inborn ability to handle spirits and wasnt that one of the reasons why she was made into an artoria clone?

You're also inverting cause and consequences again here. She is sensitive to ghost because she is a fitting vessel of Arthur, not the other way around.

The reason Gray is so overly afraid of these Ghosts is that she is particularly susceptible to these impulses, which can greatly influence her own personality.
…in truth, that function was built into her on purpose, so that she might receive the mind of King Arthur.

[fire_mountain_30]

Yes, Master aptitude is indeed a factor that exists, but it's only indirectly connected to being a potential Pseudo-Servant vessel. Since the all the vessels are people whose lives where twisted by the Grail (or connected to Zhuge Liang's vessel if Zhuge uses Chu Shi Biao), being a Master in a Grail War is guaranteed to add you to the potential vessel list, but if someone just has Master aptitude and never sees a Grail in their lives, they're not getting on the list. Reines and Luvia are high level mages we can safely assume to have some degree of Master aptitude but they still were explictly of the list until Waver used his "add names to the list" Noble Phantasm.

"Since the all the vessels are people whose lives where twisted by the Grail"

has this ever been directly stated to be a requirement?

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You're also inverting cause and consequences again here. She is sensitive to ghost because she is a fitting vessel of Arthur, not the other way around.

i was not aware that that was not something that she was born with

[You]

"Since the all the vessels are people whose lives where twisted by the Grail"

.

Heroic Spirit possession. The Jaguar Nagual achieved its materialization as a bunrei, done by possessing a particular human as its vessel. From time immemorial, it is said that humans who obtained the Nagual of a Jaguar were endowed with supernatural powers. The Nagual tales are narrated even in the modern times. Furthermore, concerning the criteria for possession, among the humans that has a tie to the Holy Grail, the person who carries the fate of the wildness and the wildest force is elected.

[Bobin]

What’s the story behind Ciel apparently being an unpopular heroine? I’m out of the loop and don’t really understand the context of it.

[LJ3]

I don't think she's that unpopular?

[Rafflesiac]

I assume it's the repeat route.

[Comun]

That's should only be a problem for Arcueid, since her route is the version with less content.

[Ratman]

What’s the story behind Ciel apparently being an unpopular heroine? I’m out of the loop and don’t really understand the context of it.

The real answer is it's mostly a meme spawned from Hiroyuki's classic doujinshi about curry and ass.

It's pretty strongly accentuated by Ciel's weird narrative trait of being often a device for Shiki's characterization due to being closest to his wavelength of the heroines, and really just not being much of a love interest. When Ciel shows agency she's usually being an emotionally stunted bitch. She's sympathetic to Shiki due to projection and they hook up for reasons, but their relationship just isn't that strong, they're buddies. And don't forget she cucks Akiha in her route and shares Shiki in hers. Ciel gets around is all I'm sayin'

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I guess something very important to understand about Ciel is that 'senpai' is the vulnerable side of her that she shows to the one solitary person of 6 billion people on the planet who she thinks could possibly in the future begin to understand her circumstances. If you are anyone else than literally Tohno Shiki, then Ciel is just an abrasive cunt who either has no reason dealing with you or wants to kill you. The characters of Tsukihime (and indeed many TM works) are largely characterized by their method of coping with trauma, and Ciel's method of becoming a workoholic pointed outwards to escape her past does not exactly come up on the top of the bracket.

[Menwearpink]

Curry senpai’s a good supporting character, but really she has some strong moments in her route I feel.

But the end of Roa in the Harem end is one of my favorite scenes in Tsuki honestly.

[Ratman]

I like her too. She's an onion of issues precluding Kohaku, and there's depth to her, but the game doesn't beat you over the head with it. Too busy advancing the plot.

It's a shame about The Dark Six, because the prologue already gets into Ciel in a way Tsukihime never did, it could have been her time. Melty Ciel is jackboots for days.

[Bobin]

I thought that Ciel's route was kind of strange in tone with how oddly comedic it was compared to the other ones since at some points the only real danger left midway was Roa possibility influencing Shiki into doing something undesirable with his body, and was treated as "all under control" that they had the leisure to eventually find a solution to unlike how there were multiple pressing matters that would eventually break all hell loose in all the other routes that you're justly ignorant about.

You could just plainly appreciate how absurd some things were. Y'know, like how Shiki's biggest concern at some point was how he was doing to deal with the raging hard-on Roa graciously left him with for the whole day and Ciel literally catfighting Arc for Shiki without any pretense of church vs. vampires

[Agailius]

What exacty is it that causes Tamamo and Nero to fall for Hakuno in Fate/Extra?

[Tobias]

Same reason archer does. They are extremely lonely people.