Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Comun]

Had the Einzbern ever considered what to do with the counterforce if anyone had actually utilized the Heaven's Feel?

Counter it with immortality.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Well, they basically went extinct, right?

They were never really a human clan in the first place, though.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I mean they're constant screwups so

Fair, but I'm not sure that amounts to more than speculation. I always thought the Einzbern failed mostly because their inhuman psychology led them to not account for the flaws of others derailing their ritual and also to not properly adjust to setbacks.

[Mattias]

Although i said it before i outright loath These Mecha garbage as i am dissatisfied with that it doesnt explain the time before ZEus Reign ,the Age where atfirst perhaps Chaos then Phanes , then after awhile Ouranos and before Zeus finally his Father Chronos .

As id like to know how and if any Nasu and co take the Protogonoi and the Titan into account . Aswell some Details About who then creaeted These Mecha actually as this Explanation does leave ctually more Questions !?

You probably don't. Especially when you run into the same issue that many stories with multiple pantheons hit, which is each group being born from then killing the same being. How many ways have the Earth and Sky been overthrown, and in how many different ways? Trying to cram all of them into the same single event is bound to create way more issues than it would resolve.

[Menwearpink]

I mean at that point you could say the real curse was on the Tohsakas with their goof up trait.

[Comun]

Toosaka’s goof ups never rendered the Grail mostly unusable for all subsequent wars, so I think the Einzberns screwed up worse.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

tohsaka goofups are tied to the land, it just combined with the cursed einzberns to ruin everything even worse

[Peanut-007]

The Tohsaka goof ups are also comedies like summoning your future boyfriend or leaving Gilgamesh unattended in a wine cellar. The Einzbern's are more like "turns out summoning Persian Satan was a bad idea".

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

That, and "hiring Kerry was a good idea".

[eddyak]

Actually, hiring the guy who's specialised in killing magi, who's tied to their household by marriage and genuine emotion, for a magus battle royale, was the best idea they've had in a few hundred years.

But they'd already fucked up by summoning Basically Satan into their wish granter, so that every time they rolled that particular gacha they'd unveil the trap card that kills everything on the field.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

True. Their second best idea was probably summoning Heracles, but by then, it was way too late.

[ILurkNoMoar]

Yeah, the only reason Kiri didn't work out was because they had already screwed up the Grail by summoning Angry Mango during the 3rd war and having him corrupt everything. Had that not happened they probably would've gotten everything they wanted after the 4th HGW was over.

[Comun]

True. Their second best idea was probably summoning Heracles, but by then, it was way too late.

Heracles was a great idea but Berserker not nearly as much. Archer would be much more advantageous because
A) It’s an overall better Servant.
B) It would leave Rin with Berserker EMIYA, who would get himself killed in the first opportunity by running into traffic to help an old lady cross the street.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

Yeah, the only reason Kiri didn't work out was because they had already screwed up the Grail by summoning Angry Mango during the 3rd war and having him corrupt everything. Had that not happened they probably would've gotten everything they wanted after the 4th HGW was over.

would they? assuming the war went exactly as it did in Zero, but with no angra mainyu choosing kerry as the winner, it would have to be a genuine fight between gil and very wounded artoria

[Peanut-007]

would they? assuming the war went exactly as it did in Zero, but with no angra mainyu choosing kerry as the winner, it would have to be a genuine fight between gil and very wounded artoria

Tohsaka getting Gilgamesh and Gilgamesh being hilariously stronger then every other servant kinda blew up their plan. Even then if Kerry hadn't taken the sheathe so he could go fight Kotomine Artoria would have been in with a shot. Getting the loyal magus killer, King Arthur as Saber, and Avalon for bonus power was hardly going into the Fourth War with a bad plan. With the sheathe Artoria probably rolls over most of the competition.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

In addition, the Einzberns clearly ignored any issues of Master-Servant compatibility when they paired Kerry and Artoria. As Kerry himself said, he would have much preferred Caster or Assassin.

Also, Berserkles does make some sense, since he's less likely to turn on the Einzberns if he finds their intended use for Ilya to be unconscionable. The man can ignore Command Seals for gods' sake.

[fumei]

He won using Saber though, so... they were right.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

But again, that was not really a guarantee, and of course, he withheld Avalon from Saber despite it being a potentially game-winning factor for her in part because he didn't trust her.

[eddyak]

The closest thing to a guarantee in a war is an invincible juggernaut that can roll over opponents, can't be killed, and won't ever go against you.

We saw how well that worked out for them in the fifth war.

[Peanut-007]

The Einzbern's real problem is that random teenagers keep interfering and throwing off their gameplan. Imagine how well they would have done if Saber hadn't gotten bullied by Iskander and if Berserker hadn't been made to face up against Saber, Archer, or even Shinji (and some other guy).