So its just an arthoria who has rhongo as her main but unlike lancer arthoria didnt let go of rhongo?Originally Posted by eddyak
So that whole "bedi never returned excali resulting into goddess rhongo" was just a red herring or something?
So its just an arthoria who has rhongo as her main but unlike lancer arthoria didnt let go of rhongo?
So that whole "bedi never returned excali resulting into goddess rhongo" was just a red herring or something?
One neat idea I saw is that Daybit summoned a normal Servant and use some secret cheat to Ascend him into a Grand. Something like turning 3* Romulus into Quirinus or Artemis into Super Orion.
Bedivere never returning Excalibur doesn't allow Artoria to die. Since he kept Excalibur with him, she starts using only Rhongomyniad. Using Rhongomyniad for many years changes her.
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
Which is what im not getting.
Since when did excalibur didnt allow arthoria to die? I dont remember excalibur bestowing her with imortality or something. What does not returning excali have to do with arthoria not dying?
I'll reformulate.
Since Bedivere never return Excalibur to the lake and never return to her, Artoria does not allow herself to die.
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
Like was she waiting for him or something? Can you elaborate more on that? Feels like i missed something
In FSN, Artoria isn't an ordinary Heroic Spirit. by pulling out the sword she ceased to be human and became an ideal king. At the end of Camlann, She has yet to be recorded by the Throne. Instead, she made contract with the World on the verge of death in order to be able to participate in HGW to obtain the Holy Grail. At the end of the route she made peace with herself and decided to relinquish the ownership of Excalibur, by returning the sword back to the lake through Bedivere, allowing herself to die of mortal wound.
But in this timeline, she couldn't go through with it because of Bedivere's reluctance to return Excalibur, while Rhongomyniad she held on to after slaying Mordred slowly corrupting her into a Divine Spirit, making her able to wander through other timelines.
Sorry if it's long-winded.
Pretty sure it was caliburn that she pulled and was initially the thing to give her partial immortality. Then after it was broken avalon then gave her partial immortality
I never interpreted her not dying immediately after camlann to not being due to excali but to her making a contract with the World which essentially froze her death.
I also never interpreted her returning excali to the lake due to it preventing her death but simply because she doesnt need it anymore as she has found closure and a nod to the original legend about it being returned.
All this excalibur has inherent age stopping property is new to me. Every material i saw doesnt mention it. Meanwhile avalon mats explicitly mention it
In camelot it was mentioned excali allowed bedi to live 1500 years but is that really due to some inherent property and not using the energy within excali to boost his lifespan or something? It only mentioned the end result but not the process
Last edited by Reverse_side98; May 31st, 2021 at 06:08 AM.
I don't really understand your argument, to be honest. Merlin doesn't say he's a grand in babylonia because at the time he was summoned as a regular servant by Gil and then walked there on his own in his own living body, i.e., not as a servant. Grand specifically is someone summoned in a GRAND vessel by the world, so of course he wouldn't say he's a grand when that wasn't what had happened to him. Meanwhile, Solomon currently filled the position of Grand Caster, because just like with Beasts, if a seat is taken then everyone else just get to stand in line and wait their turn, you can't sit two people down on the same chair. By the time Merlin's mats came out, Solomon had already relinquished his position as Grand, meaning that now the seat was open for someone else in line to take it next time. Merlin's mats, at this point, EXPLICITLY state that he's "Grand Caster", but like we've already established, you are only "actively" a grand if you are summoned by the world into a grand class vessel, meaning that for all intents and purposes Merlin is a Grand Caster candidate. And just because he's a candidate who CAN be summoned by the world at some point as a grand doesn't mean he's ALWAYS gonna be a grand whenever you see him.
On the other hand, you have Gil explaining that 1) he's not a grand, 2) he doesn't technically qualify for being grand caster, and 3) he's not even a "real" caster, which you then combine with the information from hits mats not saying he's grand caster. QED.
The fact that people are prone to say "Merlin is Grand Caster" is because for all intents and purposes, the next time one is summoned, it's most likely gonna be him because we don't know anyone else while we've been explicitly told that he qualify.
Yes, I meant Caliburn. I forgot to specify which sword.
I don't know how it worked exactly, but it is stated that Bedivere's failure to return Excalibur caused Artoria unable to die. Due to it diverging from PHH might've also played a role.I also never interpreted her returning excali to the lake due to it preventing her death but simply because she doesnt need it anymore as she has found closure and a nod to the original legend about it being returned.
Yes, Bedivere was kept alive by the holy sword, but the 'how' wasn't made clear. It's possible that the same process happened to Artoria.In camelot it was mentioned excali allowed bedi to live 1500 years but is that really due to some inherent property and not using the energy within excali to boost his lifespan or something? It only mentioned the end result but not the process
Last edited by OnesFleetingGlory; May 31st, 2021 at 07:33 AM.
Hello guys, I've had this question for a while.
In f/sn the scene with Atrum and Medea where she creates the larger mana crystal.
Atrum goes "How could you create Mana from an empty kiln?"
And medea responds, "Empty? Oh... So this appears empty to the eyes of you modern mages?"
What are they talking about, kiln? empty.
I had just always assumed it was talking about how medea was able to use the Mana in the enviornment well, and to a modern magus like atrum he could barely see it. But I was never sure if that was correct, so I'm wondering if any of yall have any ideas. Thanks in advance.
Ether Clumps, maybe?
OMG that makes so much sense, idk how I didn't realize that, Nasu did say IIRC that the root fueled AoG mages magical energy. maybe thats what she's able to interact with that atrum couldnt see, I originally thought that Modern Mages just couldnt see mana in the environment at all until recently where I saw that apparently they do according to TMDICT.
So yup makes sense, Medea and other AoG mages are still able to interact with some sorta clumps of True ether that modern magus' just aren't capable of being aware of.
Last edited by Duvie; May 31st, 2021 at 10:25 AM.
Do you count Goetia calling himself Grand Caster as that? Because I don't really remember Solomon proper as a Grand Caster being mentioned when relevant.
So in my lazy march through F/SN, I finally get to Rin-sensei's lecture on magic.
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2052/
At which point either my reading comprehension goes down the drain, the translation goes wonky, Nasu is being even more poetic with his language than normal, or some combination of that and several other factors. Point is reading it turned my mind a bit into goo, and I'm here for clarification.
Like, from past knowledge, I thought that magic circuits were basically organs only magi have that is used to do magecraft and that the Crest is basically a clump of circuits that have certain spells pre-engraved so to speak so that you can just cast them by pouring magic energy into the crest. However, from what this says, apparently circuits are also passed down? As for the Crest, the description lost me at the "put hands on" mention.
Anyways, can someone put what is said here in different terms so that I might be able to understand it better?
That's what she meant with "train and pass down circuits". The progenitors's efforts bear fruit in the very genetic makeup of their successors.The pseudo-nerves existing in the body of a magus.
They are the paths that convert life force into magical energy, as well as the paths which connect to the foundations underlying Grand Rituals.
The number of Magic Circuits is determined at birth. Mage lineages will resort to any means to alter themselves in hope of giving their descendants just one more Circuit...
About the second part, it's more about literally passing knowledge. A mage who has managed to perform whatever a certain spell is within their research or life-practice, passes this whole process on through the Magic Crest, while the research stays on the papers the [supposedly difficult] act of bringing forth(go beyond the level of formulas) certain spells is passed through the crest, so the descendants don't have to spend the time they spent on it, and skip this step. It's like if your parents could pass on all their muscle memory to you, in this aspect alone.
I guess it something around these lines.
Last edited by Tenshi; June 1st, 2021 at 02:15 AM.
I did, but now that I think about it that was a lie and his "Grand" power was because of the Beast vessel. Anyway the other points still stand.
So it's mostly just the one word in the Mats when nothing else in the game really backs it up. Guess Gray is a Lancer then despite what the game tells me.
Anyway, what is Tamamo's role in LB5.5? I noticed she showed up for a bit but didn't really do anything as far as I saw. And why did Douman need the sword Regalia?
I don't get you. Fumei literally agrees that Merlin isn't really a Grand yet since he's not even a Servant due to his immortality, he's just adding that he's probably the next Grand Caster candidate in line to take the spot. Or are you still confused on why Merlin can be a Grand? Because his mats pretty clearly say this:
I'm pretty confident that "crown position" is just another way of saying Grand Servant/Class, others can feel free to check again (like castor asks).
Romani says this in Babylonia:
They keep telling us Merlin can be a Grand, I don't know why you think it's just his mats.
That's her original, living self during Heian era, serving as courtesan for Emperor Toba. EXTRA also delved a little on that as one of her Matrix conversations.
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