Why was the hole opened to the outside world with only 5 servants?Originally Posted by You
Why was the hole opened to the outside world with only 5 servants?
Which time?
Fate and UBW the holes opened by the Lesser Grail are to the Greater Grail that's why mud comes out of them.
In the case you can fully activate the Greater Grail, have possession of a filled Lesser Grail, and are in one of the summoning locations, you jump through through the first hole which sends you to and through the second hole in Ryuudou cavern which leads outside the world.
Think of this first hole as a USB cable.
In HF, Gil counts for more than 1 Servant.The beam of light from Excalibur that had destroyed the Grail had blown away the ceiling of the stage, and sheared the entire municipal hall into two. The building, that had already been burned beyond recognition, could not withstand the blow. The structure of the upper levels had been destroyed; the roof, having lost its support, now dropped into the hall like an avalanche.
Following which, through the fragments of debris, Kiritsugu saw ‘it’ in the revealed night sky.
A black sun — that which he had seen when he had touched the black mud. The sign of the end of the world.
At that time Kiritsugu had not seen clearly that its physical form was actually a true ‘hole’. It is a space tunnel that connected with the Magic Circle of the Greater Grail, which had been hidden beneath the altar of the ritual of descent, deep underground in Mount Enzō to the east of Miyama. The insides of the Greater Grail, which had drawn energy from the leylines for sixty years and now had obtained the souls of six Heroic Spirits, had been filled to the brim and turned into an enormous prana whirlpool. That was the true form of that black ‘hole’.
Before she notices, the silver-haired girl is before her.
The same girl as her.
The white girl who is to become the container, who was not treated as a human being.
"Saber, Lancer, Caster, Berserker.
It would've been fine with just these four. Where did you consume such a soul, Sakura? I'm surprised it's already sufficient when Assassin and Rider are still left."
…She doesn't understand.
She has heard from her grandfather that the girl is just like her, a container that collects the souls of the defeated Servants.
But she has not heard about any Servants being defeated other than the ones just mentioned…
Last edited by You; November 23rd, 2021 at 12:23 AM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
it's like a tunnel...the entrance of the tunnel it's the hole opened by the lesser grail and the exit it's the hole opened by the greater grail and which directs you towards the outside world...Am I wrong?
Last edited by Jesse1089; November 23rd, 2021 at 03:18 AM.
I always thought of the lesser grail being the key and servants being the drill that lets you pierce the heaven's after the key opens the door, with the greater grail being the system with with the two functions intertwine.
honestly i do wonder how the grail using the souls as fuel works with the whole 'soul/info gets back into the throne'
The whole point of the lesser grail is that they don't go back to the throne right away. That's why the lesser grail is a "container" and it grows weaker as more Servants die because it's literally holding onto all the souls instead of letting them just flow back to the throne, and then you punch the big hole at the end by releasing the cap on the lesser grail all at once.
Yep...I also thought that...I believed that the hole that has been opened was the entrance to the outside world...
I thought Angra did not trigger the counterforce via Anti-hero loophole...?
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
What anti-hero loophole?
It was something said in HF. "…They are created by the people, but are not a part of humanity. It is that contradiction which allows them to be 'the enemy of the world' exempt from all the restraining forces of the world."
Again, it could totally be a misunderstanding by my side.
Last edited by Herod; November 24th, 2021 at 04:48 AM.
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
Well, i cant fight the statement in itself(special exception scenario go)
I can just point out the CF has stopped "things humanity wished for"... as for "things not a part of humanity" i dont think we ever got a specific example in the stories of something that would fit(everything can be tied to humanity somehow) but the statement does imply they would usually be stopped. As for why they wouldnt be stopped when paired up... Who knows.
Is this first hole connected with the second hole?...I mean...if you jump through the first one you should pass through the second hole immediately...right? like a wormhole...
Last edited by Jesse1089; November 24th, 2021 at 08:34 PM.
Yes, if the 2nd hole has been opened. That is, 7 Servants are sacrificed.
If only 6 Servants have been sacrificed you only have access to Greater Grail crunching on Servants magical energy not outside of the world mana.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Ok... then while the greater grail reproduces the third magic by absorbing the mana from the outside world ... the dress of heaven is used to manipulate and cast the third magic onto everyone ... right?
Dress of Heaven is just a shard of the Third, just like how the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch is a shard of the Second.
You do not need the Dress of Heaven to perform the Third. Ilya needed it because the Einzberns do not have the Third at this time.
The dress has two main functions:
The first is as mentioned a fragment of the Third. It can materialize a soul for little while.
The second is that it can act as a command prompt run as administrator for the Greater Grail
A magical artifact passed down by the Einzberns.
As the heart that governs the Great Holy Grail, it is imbued with magecraft that can materialize the soul for just a few seconds.
アインツベルンに伝わる魔術兵装。
大聖杯を制御する心臓にして、魂を数秒だけ物質化させる魔術を帯びている。
"Are you saying you'll sacrifice yourself, Ilyasviel?"
"Yes. That's my role.
But the formal dress isn't here. If you want to open the gate as the successor, we have to go to my castle to get it."
「じゃあ、自ら生贄になると言うの、イリヤスフィール」
「ええ。それがわたしの役割だもの。
けど正装はここにはないの。サクラが後継者として門を開きたいんなら、わたしの城まで取りに 行かないと」
「――――――――」Zouken needs the Dress of Heaven on Ilya because ideally he doesn't want Sakura opening the gatehttps://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night...HF15-04-18.jpg
"………"
"Do not be so doubtful. The Holy Grail you desire is that girl. Keeping your name in history and becoming the original. Your wish to be eternal through record will be granted by Einzbern.
But I need her to keep her original form. Homunculi are outside my expertise. You can let her be until they prepare her formal dress."
「む？ 何処に行くアサシン。
万が一という事もある。おぬしにはアレからワシを守ってもらわねばならん」
「……それは構わんが。黒い聖杯ばかりに〈感〉《かま》け、白い聖杯を自由にさせるのはどうか。ようやく手 に入れた正統な聖杯を、なぜあのように遊ばせておく？」
「おお、その事か。なに、イリヤスフィールは我らに協力的じゃ。もとより聖杯として門を開ける為だけに存在 する娘。その目的が果たされるのなら、と大人しく頷きおったわ」
「………………」
「そう訝しがるでない。おぬしの求める聖杯はあちらの娘だ。歴史に名を残し、自らが〈本物〉《オリジナル》 になる。記録としての永遠を望むうぬの願いはアインツベルンが叶えてくれよう。
だが、それにはあの娘に本来の姿になって貰わねばならん。ワシはホムンクルスは管轄外でな。あやつらが正 装を整えるまでは好きにさせておけばよい」
Sakura has all the Servants in her while Ilya only had Archer. So for Ilya to open the gate, he needed the manual override and to fix some settings if his plan was to go forward the way he wanted.Then what?
The thing possessing Sakura.
If what's changing her is a contract with a Servant
"Zouken kidnapped me, probably because he didn't want to let Sakura open the gate.
He wanted me to take the role of the Holy Grail, allowing him to take over Sakura's body once she became Angra Manyu's Master."
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, but shouldn't the fact that QSH found a way to get people out of his lostbelt be more significant? Like at the end of his LB, why can't he just load up a bunch of people on the fake shadow border's he's made so that they can get out past the barrier since they admit that that's possible with these ones. Having no choice but to genocide entire worlds is one thing, but we have a choice here. Heck, given that we now know it's possible to get other people out via this way, why can't we just build replicas of the SB in other LB's? It'd certainly be possible in the Greek lostbelt.
It kinda sounds like the answer to one of the major problems of the arc has been shown to us.
Also on that note, why is that the people riding QSH's shadow boarders would be able to survive getting past the storm walls when we're told that if we take someone in our storm board it won't work? Was that just a lie?
Last edited by Arete; November 26th, 2021 at 10:26 AM.
Wasnt it that Fantasy Tree based people fizzle out outside their LB and only LB 6 fairies are possible because they aren't Fantasy Tree based anymore... Then again don't, remember if the statement that you can take faeries out isnt from BEFORE we find out 90% of the fairies are quazi-servants to Morgan
If I remember well, they could only do it for the British lostbelt, since it was different from the other ones.
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
Yeah but they said it was possible for LB3, at least with the fake-borders.
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