Spoiler:
Ok, people are posting numbers now and I think that's the cut off point where posts need to be moved to Badass Versus.
I don't think there is anything else to really go over so may as well just leave it.
tohno is as fast as plot needs to be. Arc wasn't able to react when the dude cut her into 17 pieces.
I can understand the off guarded Ness but it wasn't one or two cuts to make it believable
I mean, Shiki literally kills a dragon when fighting it head on after NRVNQSR summons it, without any element of suprise or anyone helping him. Doesen't that alone unambigiously means he's servant level? I am pretty sure that it was canon at that point in time that even servants wouldn't be able to fight Dragons without their noble phantasms.
that's not in the original novel is it
Call me 想φαγω.
Spoiler:
There is a very brief mention of a "winged lizard" when Shiki is closing in on Nrvnqsr. He kills it by stabbing it in the back and sliding down to it's abdomen. There's no art for it and one could make the argument he dispatched it right after it manifested as there is no mention of the creature reacting at all to Shiki. He does call it troublesome because it doesn't have many lines.Originally Posted by Temflakes403
Yes, he kills it and a unicorn.
----No.
If I do have that sort of energy, as quickly as possible----
"----Very well. I now recognize you as an obstacle to me."
----killing this beast-smelling monster would be far better.
His black coat opens wide.
The vile stench of beasts.
The sense of danger before was nothing compared to what it is now.
From inside his coat, things come out which I've seen at least once when I was a child.
Like this horse with a horn on its forehead, or this huge, winged lizard.
Those are troublesome.
It's not simple to kill them,
because they have very few "parts vulnerable to death".
So---I get more serious.
Is it because I said "kill"?
The pulsing of my blood is painful.
My nerves are grinding together.
Everything in my body links together to remove that which gets in my way.
I slice in half the horned horse along with its horn.
I slice the lizard from its back to its lower-right abdomen.
"----Impossible."
I hear that obstacle's voice.
Unfortunately, I can't even see properly now.
All I can see are those black points and lines.
"Scum----why must I attack a mere human with my full force----!?"
With a squishy, fleshy sound,
Nrvnqsr's half-body returns to its previous human shape.
----It seems he finally put back the half of his body binding Arcueid.
huh
Call me 想φαγω.
Spoiler:
I wanna check, what was the posting date of each bit of KnK on like the website? before it got turned into a book and naime and stuff
Was it before or after tsukihime
Before. 1998.
Regardless of what it was this entire scene is another manifestation of the concept that he's just one good plot inversion away from being able to strike way above his normal weight class.
Right. I think the final two chapters released in 1999? Then like a 2001 release, then the 2004(?) version and finally a 2007 revised version. Good old days.
No, some dragons are weak.
The Pinnacle of Phantasmal Species – Dragons
Dragons, or Magical Beasts similar to Dragons, have members in all classes of Magical Beasts (Monstrous, Phantasmal, and Divine Beasts). Dragons are always thought to be the greatest species within their corresponding classes. Because there are dragons of the Monstrous, Phantasmal, and Divine classes, they have been involved with mankind since before the Age of Gods. They have also left many legends in the field of thaumaturgy.
Yeah there are different types of dragons of varying classifications. We also don't know what type of dragon the winged lizard is. Is it an actual dragon, a god tier eastern type or a shitty wyvern that can be cut down like a swallow? The argument of servants can't fight dragons without their noble phantasms, which are their trump cards, seems kinda weak considering Shiki uses MEODP to kill it.
Here's a question. Could Tohno kill that winged lizard without his trump card?
I just think this is a silly argument. Characters are as strong or weak as deemed necessary for the story.
If you reduce it down to that argument, then most GD is pointless (in before "GD is pointless you are right").
The exercise here is to have some basis when discussing power level.
If you say Tohno is Servant-tier, we need to see some Servant-tier numbers.
Also, about your dragon question:
Since Nasu goes out of his way to not say dragon, it's probably one of these.The Pinnacle of Phantasmal Species – Dragons
Dragons, or Magical Beasts similar to Dragons, have members in all classes of Magical Beasts (Monstrous, Phantasmal, and Divine Beasts). Dragons are always thought to be the greatest species within their corresponding classes. Because there are dragons of the Monstrous, Phantasmal, and Divine classes, they have been involved with mankind since before the Age of Gods. They have also left many legends in the field of thaumaturgy.
I think there's a point to discussing power-levels to some degree. It can be fun, and fun things are what we live for.
That said, finding exact methodology in Nasu-rithmetic is a task of dreadful folly. This man can't count on his own two hands.
In the case of speed I'd rather ballpark it on "well, that person is probably faster overall" than try to come up with exact numbers. Shiki is an especially annoying case as Nanaya says.
TsukiRE
Man's clairvoyance so good that he can see into a timeline where he can't even exist.
I mean, it's Shiki's narration of fantastical things he's seen as a child. He doesn't go out of his way to say unicorn either.
Right, even the above OG scene has him avoiding and countering a vampire comparable to Arc. As I recall he monologues how he feels similar to how he did when he met her indicating he's particularly far into 'Nanaya' deep end.
There is literally no grown ass man in Japan that doesn't know the word dragon and unicorn. It's literally elementary school literacy.
It is more likely that Nasu doesn't want to explicitly say Dragon and Unicorn, because he can wiggle out of it later with "I never said Tohno can kill a Dragon or Unicorn".
I wasn't implying Shiki wouldn't 'know' what they are. Just that it's just how his thoughts are flowing in the moment. I wouldn't know why Nasu decides to write a specific sentence the way he does. Maybe he thought it fit better with Shiki just seeing them as obstacles to be destroyed rather than something to give any sort of reverence to.
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