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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #154641
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    Well idea of eastern magecraft was there from the get go.
    Otherwise the statement that western magecraft would be incompatible against eastern magecraft wouldn't exist. If the concept of eastern magecraft wasn't already made

  2. #154642
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Nasu's scattered references to houjutsu in the early 2000s do not support the conclusion that he had already thought up Philosophy Magecraft at that stage.
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  3. #154643
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    I ain't refering to references. Only the fact that general idea about philosophy magecraft already existed since it's been said that western magecraft and philosophy magecraft are incompatible. Or that statement is said on void if the general idea about it doesn't exist before hand.

  4. #154644
    Lie Like Vortigern Reign's Avatar
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    Nasu knew he wanted Chinese magecraft and Western magecraft to be incompatible but that doesn't mean the exact details were ironed out.

  5. #154645
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Does MA's eastern counterpart also assign Ranks to their members? Do they use different naming methods?


  6. #154646
    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    In all likelihood some character wouldnt have them as skills, but it would have likely come up. Prob the most obvious who should have it as skills are zhuge and chen gong, the latter explicitely using xian stuff already. and i dont count interludes or mentions after the concept was introduced as a whole.

    Hell does philosophy magecraft even come up in lb3? like the words themselves? Considering that Qin shi huang searched for xian stuff, and the philosophy stuff was already established by the time of taigong which was before Qin shi huang.
    Clearly that Gen is suck at connecting all the lore together. It already is a thing since how off Fate/Zero is and how short the LB3 character profiles in Material are while there is tons of things you can write. Also, the whole Eastern system in charged by Sanda together with Nasu, not Gen. So he doesnt know anything, or just he doesnt care enough to put more effort. LB3 probably one of the best opportunity to introduce how thing about Chinese system and Gen messed that up then passed them to Sanda to handle.
    Last edited by Misaya; October 12th, 2022 at 06:00 PM.

  7. #154647
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Fun fact: Urobuchi was considering a Xian as Caster candidate in FZ, but then Nasu shot it down because they would be too OP.


    CMIIW


  8. #154648
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Does MA's eastern counterpart also assign Ranks to their members? Do they use different naming methods?
    My guess is that this information will be part of El Melloi adventure mats, preorder now.
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    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
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  9. #154649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    Nasu knew he wanted Chinese magecraft and Western magecraft to be incompatible but that doesn't mean the exact details were ironed out.
    There's thing about xians as well not being on fate zero. With all said and done I wouldn't say he already established philosophy keys and what not. But basic concept of Chinese magecraft is more than likely already established. You are speaking about he "wanted" it but that's not how the wording says. It's a direct statement that it already is. So in universe they already know it. If you can read minds that it was proposed not already made be my guest

  10. #154650
    祖 Ancestor Kirishima's Avatar
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    You don't need to have anything about Chinese magecraft established to know that a Xian would just stomp everything. The original Chinese texts already make that pretty clear.

  11. #154651
    other side of Red Garden AmADo VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Fun fact: Urobuchi was considering a Xian as Caster candidate in FZ, but then Nasu shot it down because they would be too OP.


    CMIIW
    yes Kinoko said Xian are too strong, not 'you can't summon Xian' which led to lot of misunderstanding.

  12. #154652
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    theoretically the question of whether xian would stomp or not is irrelevant. why would a xian respond to your summon at all? they're (a) not dead and therefore not on the throne of heroes, and (b) are in such a position (partying on mount penglai all day, among other things) that it is hard to imagine them wanting anything the grail could notionally provide
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  13. #154653
    Quote Originally Posted by OnesFleetingGlory View Post
    Fun fact: Urobuchi was considering a Xian as Caster candidate in FZ, but then Nasu shot it down because they would be too OP.


    CMIIW
    Considering of what we see of Yu Meiren and that other Xian from Case Files? Yeah, Nasu has a hell of a point.

  14. #154654
    夜魔 Nightmare Arete's Avatar
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    Is TM using Theravada Buddhism? More specifically for Buddha I mean. It seems like an extreme version of it considering we're told he's the only one that ever gained enlightenment, though we know that Kiara also has the potential for it, just didn't make it in this universe.

  15. #154655
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    TM is not "using" any particular school of Buddhism. Not in the way you mean, anyway.
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  16. #154656
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehennahem View Post
    Considering of what we see of Yu Meiren and that other Xian from Case Files? Yeah, Nasu has a hell of a point.
    If anything that's more a point that they're underpowered or average. Yu and Wuzhiqi if anything aren't the most impressive. At least Wuzhiqi has the excuse of a proxy body, but then you get into how Philosophy Keys seem a lot worse than Magic Crests and a lot more limiting even at the super founder Xian level.

    I'm pretty sure it was rather that Urobuchi wanted the Yellow Emperor/Huangdi which is way crazier and pretty much the absolute peak of what you could get from any Chinese lore, history and mythology. Not a Xian.

  17. #154657
    群星の探検家 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    If anything that's more a point that they're underpowered or average. Yu and Wuzhiqi if anything aren't the most impressive. At least Wuzhiqi has the excuse of a proxy body, but then you get into how Philosophy Keys seem a lot worse than Magic Crests and a lot more limiting even at the super founder Xian level.
    Not sure why the keys are a limit when one can use the Xian art without the keys. You join the gang in the official ways you get a key. But you can gain access to it via other ways and can even fake a key to illegally access the juicy stuffs. The library in of itself contains a lot more than any other foundations as well to the point they feel no need to reach the Root.
    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    I'm pretty sure it was rather that Urobuchi wanted the Yellow Emperor/Huangdi which is way crazier and pretty much the absolute peak of what you could get from any Chinese lore, history and mythology. Not a Xian.
    Do you even know Chinese mythology? A Xian is in fact the absolute peak of what you could get from any Chinese lore and Urobuchi specifically wanted one of them. No idea what you're even talking about when Yellow Emperor is not even close to the top tier yet he had a Beast guarding his tomb. Even Wukong or Taigong Wang are mid tier compare to the ones sitting at the top. Saying Yu Meiren and Wuzhiqi isn't being impressive for a Xian is no diff from saying Stheno is unimpressive for a goddess. In Xian ranking system it goes extremely deep to the point that the gap between a top tier and the lower tier is like the difference between a knife and a nuke.

  18. #154658
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Is TM using Theravada Buddhism? More specifically for Buddha I mean. It seems like an extreme version of it considering we're told he's the only one that ever gained enlightenment, though we know that Kiara also has the potential for it, just didn't make it in this universe.
    Huh... I thought most of the lore about Buddhism in FGO comes from Vajrayana Buddhism and Shingon Buddhism. Didn't Theravada Buddhism didn't believe in Gods, Karma, Samsara and such?

  19. #154659
    群星の探検家 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunhelier View Post
    Didn't Theravada Buddhism didn't believe in Gods, Karma, Samsara and such?
    All wrong.

    1) All schools of Buddhism don't believe in a Creator God, or divine authorities of the gods over humans. It's not that they don't have "gods", rather "gods" (devas) are simply treated as high class beings within the universe who can attain enlightenment just like humans and demons.

    2) All schools of Buddhism have central focus on Karma and Samsara. It is literally the core of the whole thing. idk which school of Buddhism you heard of that do not have Karma and Samsara. There might be differences in the interpretations and applications of the concepts, but the cores are the same.

    The main differences are actually in how one school view self-enlightenment (becoming arhat) vs the other focusing on practice the paths of other Buddhas and the Bodhisattvas. Both of these ideas on their own are outdated when it comes to the unified Buddhism view globally and the mix of the two are preferred, which was what Nasu used together with Esoteric syncretism for cool factor.

    Source: My grandma is a Theravada Buddhist monk who is also a professor researching the development of Buddhism in East and South East Asia.

  20. #154660
    If goetia already gathered all energy from incinerating human history since the beginning of part 1, why didn't he just start the time travel? Why did he wait for chaldea to finish their singularities while he already had all needed energy to go to the past?

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