Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Comun]

Why does Alt Arjuna shoot out a horse? Is there an anecdote about it in his legend?

In Indian mythology, there is a hero whose existence is close to a god who can end and begin everything infinitely. It is from him that the power of destruction was inherited from, and thus Arjuna Alter.

As far as I know, this description only fits Krishna or Kalki, which in either case Arjuna is able to ape because they're Vishnu avatars. And Kalki in particular is described as either riding a white horse or being a giant with a white horse's head. Another evidence in favor of Kalki being the main "deity" Altjuna is aping is that Kalki is Vishnu's 10th avatar and Altjuna drops a random 第十の…… when loading Maha Pralaya.

Size

[Kamera]

Why does Alt Arjuna shoot out a horse? Is there an anecdote about it in his legend?

One of Arjuna's many epithets is Swetavahana, meaning "one who possess a white horse". He has four* named white horses given to him by Agni and operated by Krishna in his chariot during the war.

[asterism42]

Kayneth is a relatively good dude, and that Waver was a shitter with a garbage thesis

What sad and/or funny is that Waver feels the exact same way. It's easy to miss under all the weeping over Iskander, but arguably Kayneth's death is Waver's biggest regret about the War.

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Also the El-Melloi class is kind of a super undermine about Waver's "hard work beats natural talent!" thesising, all of his most notable students are natural geniuses and powerhouses.

[Tenshi]

Is there any line to actually differentiate Xians from Shenxians in IRL Taoism? I know some schools says that attain Godhood and Immortality are fairly different things, or that some descriptions says that unlike Xians, Shenxians are naturally born as nature concepts. But I was wondering how exactly the difference works in a modern general sense, or if there isn't one depending on what you're looking in.

[Kamera]

Xians (仙) are bearded human hermits that got immortality through crippling opium addiction.
Shenxians (神仙) are Elementals or Divine Spirits that already has natural state of immortality.

[Lily Emilio]

Is there any line to actually differentiate Xians from Shenxians in IRL Taoism?

Strictly speaking, Shenxian is a RANK. As a Xian you will train and rise through the ranks till you ascend to the highest. Traditionally it is one of the nine ranks a Xian can reach, namely (from lowest to highest): Shangxian, Gaoxian, Taixian, Xuanxian, Tianxian, Zhenxian, Shenxian, Lingxian, Zhixian.

However later on there are other ranking systems, which then put Shenxian into subcategories (it is still a rank). Such as they now have the lower tier Xian (splits into some sub ranks), shenxian (split into some sub ranks), saints (the highest rank, but still have sub ranks). Shenxian and Saints have some overlaps due to several of their members are Da Lua Xians which are yet another way of ranking them but base on different criterias. These rankings then became more and more diverse with the imagination of xianxia writers.

Fate's take on that however, is still unclear. But at least they got Taigong's rank correctly as a Shenxian. His Master Yuanshi however, should be Saint rank (or a Zhixian in traditional ranks).

I know some schools says that attain Godhood and Immortality are fairly different things

Chinese gods are more or less titles. Think of Heaven like their feudal government, you have the Emperor (Jade Emperor) and his lower officials (the gods governing other stuffs). Every single of these positions can be changed, including the Jade Emperor himself where there have been several guys taking that post already. So having a godly title isn't as crazy as being a Xian, since you can still die or get fired and a new person will replace you or because the position is too demanding (that's why there are 60 Taisui for example).

[Tenshi]

I see, that makes it way more clear. Thanks Mizu!

Xians (仙) are bearded human hermits that got immortality through crippling opium addiction.
Shenxians (神仙) are Elementals or Divine Spirits that already has natural state of immortality.

And thanks as well.

[asterism42]

Still sounds like a cushy existence. Imagine having a job that you only have to do once every 60 years.

[Lily Emilio]

Still sounds like a cushy existence. Imagine having a job that you only have to do once every 60 years.

Yeah, it is still much much better than some other gods' such as the Stove god who has to stuck in some mortal's kitchen, documenting every single one of their good and bad deeds daily, then report to the Jade Emperor at the end of each month (later changed to each year's end to reduce the torture). You don't even have your fancy divine mounts like a lot of the gods and xians, so the mortals have to give you one in the form of offerings so you can fly up there and report (in Vietnam the mount is a carp, in China it's a horse and the mortals also have to buy grass for that horse because you are such a broke god you can't afford it).

And then you have gods who are just there chilling and watching hot sexy xians dancing, such is Heaven.

[Glazy]

How does the lesser Holy Grail grant wishes anyways. From my understanding the Holy Grail is just a big pot of mana so do you have to apply that mana to a spell?

FGO

Like how did the Grail grant Romani his wish of reincarnation? Did the grail make a new body or something.

[You]

How does the lesser Holy Grail grant wishes anyways. From my understanding the Holy Grail is just a big pot of mana so do you have to apply that mana to a spell?

FGO

Like how did the Grail grant Romani his wish of reincarnation? Did the grail make a new body or something.

The Lesser grail establishes a link to the Greater Grail. So a wish that's granted by the Lesser grail (6 or fewer Servants) is really just a wish from the Greater Grail running on the magical energy from the Lesser Grail.


The hole in the sky is a hole to the Greater Grail. Shirou falls into the Greater Grail if Gilgamesh pulls him in during the final fight of UBW.

[Comun]

Officially there's no answer beyond "that's a trait of their magecraft because they're Holy Grails" but one angle to consider is that one of the maids in Hollow (I think Leys?) describes the Einzbern homunculi as artificial Natural Spirits, which matches with how doing something without needing to know any magecraft theory for it is essentially Marble Phantasms.

[You]

Officially there's no answer beyond "that's a trait of their magecraft because they're Holy Grails" but one angle to consider is that one of the maids in Hollow (I think Leys?) describes the Einzbern homunculi as artificial Natural Spirits, which matches with how doing something without needing to know any magecraft theory for it is essentially Marble Phantasms.

I think the secret to the wish granting has to do with how Nasu describes Ilya's circuits as a 3D printer.
Refer back to how she made Ilya's Castle in Hollow with her wish granting too. Seems like it fits together.

奈須氏：
　MPだけで言うならそうですね。でもほかにも色々な特性・才能がありますから。トランベリオは毎ターンの MP回復量が破格ですし，ゼルレッチは平行世界の運用があるから事実上無限だし。イリヤはMPというより魔 術回路の質がすごい感じ。例えるならもしもボックスというか，何でも叶える3Dプリンタみたい な？

[Kirishima]

Officially there's no answer beyond "that's a trait of their magecraft because they're Holy Grails" but one angle to consider is that one of the maids in Hollow (I think Leys?) describes the Einzbern homunculi as artificial Natural Spirits, which matches with how doing something without needing to know any magecraft theory for it is essentially Marble Phantasms.

Seems like having Red Eyes and pale hair is an important part of being a spirit

[Mattias]

The Lesser grail establishes a link to the Greater Grail. So a wish that's granted by the Lesser grail (6 or fewer Servants) is really just a wish from the Greater Grail running on the magical energy from the Lesser Grail.

The 360p Grail. Same wishes, lower framerate.

[Frigix]

I've been trying to get a good grasp on the concept of souls/spiritrons, but it's hard. The more I try to learn about it, the more questions I have. So I'm really sorry for all the questions I'm about to ask, I hope you won't mind too much.

As I understand it, Spiritrons were discovered in the Extra Timeline as a way to compensate for the loss of the Third Magic. So by projecting them into a virtual world, they can basically become immortal beings (since it doesn't seem like their virtual bodies are affected by the decay of the soul...).

But spiritrons also seem to be a thing outside of Extra (it's used in a lot of tech created by Atlas, and is also the basis of rayshifting in Chaldea). But how? Isn't it supposed to be something only possible in the world of Extra? Does this mean that it's actually possible to become immortal in the world of FGO? (Or is it only in the Moon Cell that virtual spiritrons are immortal?)

And does the existence of a spiritron and its ability to be projected into a computer mean that it's basically data? Could someone actually make a copy of your soul? For example, if I had a jar of spiritron, could I use it to build a soul? Could someone code a specific soul and then build it with spiritrons? And would it be possible to bypass the decay of the soul by making said copy of the soul and attaching it to a new body (since it's a "new" soul, it wouldn't be attached to a pre-existing body)?

Is it safe to assume that spirits such as wraiths or elementals are made of Spiritrons (since they are "spiritual" beings)?

[Petrikow]

That's hell you're walking into.

The easiest answer I can give without driving myself to madness is that in a lot of cases, "spiritron" is just used as a shortening for "virtual spiritron" and that these ("spiritron" and "virtual spiritron") should be thought of as being nominally separate.
But where are these "spiritrons" actually abbreviations and where are they not? Why do Atlas make golems out of virtual spiritrons? Why is Chaldea made of them? Well, as I said, I will refain.

[MoonCell]

I always understood that spiritrons are the particles that make up the soul, like protons, neutrons and electrons make up physical matter. And just like electrons are used to store "normal" data irl, spiritrons can be used to work with soul data, which cannot, however, be accessed through means that are not specific kinds of magecraft or a supercomputer on the scale of the Moon Cell, due tor the ethereal/spiritual nature of the soul.

So yes, you could build a soul with a theoretical jar of spiritrons but doing that costs absurd amounts of energy according to Extella Link. To circumvent that you'd need blue particles, which are circuits made of spiritrons carrying the necessary information to shape the frame of a soul, making so that you don't have to spend the enormous amounts of time and energy needed for such a task. As far as we know, however, circuits con only be obtained by extracting them from preexisting spiritual frames, like the bodies of servants, so it's not something readily available to every wizard or mage.

[You]

I've been trying to get a good grasp on the concept of souls/spiritrons, but it's hard. The more I try to learn about it, the more questions I have. So I'm really sorry for all the questions I'm about to ask, I hope you won't mind too much.

A spiritron 霊子 is reference to a 量子 quantum. It takes the idea of the quantum and applies it to the soul. It is the fundamental discrete unit of the soul.

What they did in Extra was not discover virtual spiritrons. They redefined the soul and measured, not the actual soul, but its location (which they called "the soul"). By knowing its location, you can output a copy into a virtual world (information network). Thus an Avatar created with virtual spiritrons.

It's like plugging an external harddrive into a network. As long as you know where the usb port (location of the soul) is, and have a cable (magic circuits), it doesn't matter what the Hard Drive has in it, you can copypasta.

[Frigix]

What they did in Extra was not discover virtual spiritrons. They redefined the soul and measured, not the actual soul, but its location (which they called "the soul"). By knowing its location, you can output a copy into a virtual world (information network). Thus an Avatar created with virtual spiritrons.

But doesn't rayshift imply that the location of the soul was also discovered in the world of FGO? It seems to use the same mechanism that in Extra (projection of the soul into the computer / projection of the soul into the past). For it to work they should have somewhat of an idea of the location of the soul right?