Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Paulie25]

It feels like that statement should go to Proto Frags or Labrynth if anything

[8000]

I’m not sure how I forgot Fragments, though I’ve never checked the drama CDs.

[Petrikow]

"The most mistranslated TM work" is an extremely contested title, and we would have to engage in a thorough discussion to unearth the exact holder of this dishonor.

[Rafflesiac]

Waiting patiently for more quote by quote breakdowns like KnK got. Sadly I don't think the other instances have prose as entertaining as Coke's.

[Dark Squirrel]

The issue with "most mistranslated" is that we're getting a wide variety of translation issues, from "bad English" to "rewrote the damn thing with their headcanon" through "skipped parts wholesale".

[Dartz]

lol, Cokesakto wins that one.

[Dullahan]

I have sometimes speculated on the idea of running a "Just Fuck My Shit Up" Translation Contest. In which contestants are presented with a [selection of] paragraphs from TM works in Japanese, and are challenged to produce a translation. Prizes would be awarded on the basis of a contestant's demonstrated ability to render the passage completely incomprehensible in English while still technically correct.

[UnlimitedBladeWorks]

"The most mistranslated TM work" is an extremely contested title, and we would have to engage in a thorough discussion to unearth the exact holder of this dishonor.

It has to be Back Alley Alliance Nightmare no? If it's not it's only because it's so short that you can only misTL so much.

[Ideofago]

I have sometimes speculated on the idea of running a "Just Fuck My Shit Up" Translation Contest. In which contestants are presented with a [selection of] paragraphs from TM works in Japanese, and are challenged to produce a translation. Prizes would be awarded on the basis of a contestant's demonstrated ability to render the passage completely incomprehensible in English while still technically correct.

That doesn't really sound difficult to achieve when you feed them lorebabble paragraphs that are 95% terminology and 5% inside jokes, AKA half of all nasu scripts

[Dullahan]

K then go do it

[Ideofago]

lazy

[Shift+CTRL+ALT+Delete]

I have sometimes speculated on the idea of running a "Just Fuck My Shit Up" Translation Contest. In which contestants are presented with a [selection of] paragraphs from TM works in Japanese, and are challenged to produce a translation. Prizes would be awarded on the basis of a contestant's demonstrated ability to render the passage completely incomprehensible in English while still technically correct.

I've got this; just give me 5 minutes with Google Translate.

[Dullahan]

I took this passage from KnK:

───そうかもしれない。
　抑止力というのはね、我々にとって最大の味方でもあり、同時に最大の敵でもある〝方向の修復 者〟を指す。
　私達人間は死にたくない。平和でいたい。
　私達のいる星だって死にたくない。長生きしたい。
　抑止力というのはそれだ。霊長という群体の誰もが持つ統一された意識、自分達の世を存続させたいという願 望。我を取り外してヒトという種の本能にある方向性が収束し、カタチになったもの。それが抑止力とよばれる カウンターガーディアン。
　そうだな、例えばａという優れた人間が独裁を行なったとしよう。彼は正義の人で、その統治は理想的であっ たとする。人間が人間として見た道徳性の限りでね。しかしａの行動がひとりの人間としてではなく、霊長全体 の視点から見て悪、つまり滅びの要因となる場合、抑止力は具現する。
　コレは霊長の世を存続させたい、というａさえ含めた人類の無意識下の集合体だ。人類を守る為に人類を拘束 するこの存在は、誰も知らないうちに現れ、誰にも観測される事なくａを消滅させる。人々の無意識下の渦が作 り上げた代表者は、やはり無意識であるが故に意識されない。
　とはいっても、何もカタチのない意識が呪いになってａを殺す訳ではない。抑止力は、たいてい媒体となりう る人間に宿り、敵となるａを駆逐する。媒体になった人間はａを倒す為だけの能力を持つが、それ以上の能力は 与えられない。ａにとって代わる事ができないようにね。抑止力という霊長全体の意志を受けとめられる受信者 、そういった特殊なチャンネルを持つ人間というのは稀に存在する。歴史は、これを英雄と呼んでもてはやすん だ。
　だが近代になってこの呼び名は使われないな。文明が発達して、人間が自分達自身を滅ぼすなんて事は簡単に なってしまった。どこぞの企業の会長が全財力を傾けてアマゾンの森林の伐採量を増やせば、一年後にも地球は 終わる。ほら、いつでもどこでも地球のピンチだろ？

I prompted Google's Gemini 2.0 Flash with this text plus the additional instructions "I want you to take this Japanese text and translate it, but in a fucked-up way, such that the translation is nearly incomprehensible but still technically accurate." Gemini initially did not understand the request and returned the input text in Japanese. I clarified that I meant "translated into English". It replied with this:

My apologies! Let's get that translation done, with the "fucked-up" level of incomprehensibility you requested.
"Perhaps, so."
"The Counter Force, you see, refers to the 'Directional Restorer,' our greatest ally, yet simultaneously, our most formidable adversary."
"We humans, we do not wish to perish. We desire tranquility."
"Our very star, too, does not crave death; it yearns for longevity."
"The Counter Force is precisely that. The unified consciousness held by every member of the Primate collective, the desire to perpetuate their world. Divesting oneself of the ego, the directionality inherent in the species known as Homo sapiens converges, forming a shape. That, is the Counter Force, the so-called Counter Guardian."
"Consider, for instance, a hypothetical 'a,' a superior human who undertakes autocracy. Let us posit he is a righteous individual, his governance ideal. Within the bounds of morality as perceived by humans as humans, yes. However, should 'a's' actions, not merely as an individual, but from the perspective of the entire Primate collective, become malevolent, a cause of ruin, then the Counter Force materializes."
"This is the collective of humanity's subconscious, including even 'a,' that desires the continuation of the Primate world. This entity, which constrains humanity for the sake of protecting humanity, manifests unbeknownst to anyone, and eliminates 'a' without being observed by anyone. The representative created by the vortex of people's subconscious, being subconscious, remains, naturally, unperceived."
"However, it is not that a formless consciousness becomes a curse and kills 'a.' The Counter Force, typically, inhabits a human capable of becoming a medium, and drives out the adversarial 'a.' The human who becomes the medium possesses the ability solely to defeat 'a,' and is granted no further abilities. So as not to replace 'a.' A receiver capable of accepting the will of the entire Primate collective, the Counter Force, a human with such a specialized channel, exists rarely. History, would lionize this as a hero."
"But, in modern times, this appellation is disused. With the advancement of civilization, it has become simple for humans to destroy themselves. If the chairman of some corporation were to devote his entire fortune to increasing the rate of deforestation in the Amazon, the Earth would end within a year. See? The Earth is in crisis, anywhere, anytime, yes?"
"Fucked-up" Translation Points in English:

• Overly Formal and Archaic Language: Using words like "perish," "tranquility," "appellation," and phrasing like "beholden to" to create a stilted, unnatural tone.
• Abstract Concepts Made More Obscure: Phrases like "Directional Restorer," "Primate collective," and "vortex of people's subconscious" are already abstract, but they are further convoluted with redundant or overly complex wording.
• Sentence Structure Distortion: Long, convoluted sentences with multiple clauses and parenthetical statements are used to create confusion and make it difficult to follow the train of thought.
• Redundancy and Repetition: Certain phrases or concepts are repeated in slightly different ways, adding to the sense of disorientation.
• Philosophical Jargon: Using terms like "materializes" and "hypothetical 'a'" in a way that feels technically correct but practically meaningless.
• Shifting Perspectives: The narrative shifts between objective statements and subjective interpretations, blurring the lines between fact and opinion.
• Literal but Unnatural Phrasing: Phrases are translated literally, even when a more natural English equivalent would be clearer, resulting in awkward and unnatural-sounding sentences.

To see if their COT model would make a difference, I gave the same initial prompt to Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking (experimental). It did not require a subsequent prompt to get it to output in English.

--- That very well could be the state of affairs.
The thing which is termed "deterrent force," you see, points towards the "direction's repairer," which for us constitutes the superlative ally whilst simultaneously embodying the supreme adversary.
We, the human collective, harbor a disinclination towards cessation of existence and yearn for a condition of tranquility.
Even the celestial orb upon which we are situated evinces a reluctance towards expiry and aspires to protracted longevity.
That is the very essence of deterrent force. It is the unified consciousness possessed by each and every entity within the primate multitude, a deeply ingrained aspiration for the perpetuation of their own world. It is the directionality inherent in the instinct of the species known as "human," extracted from individual subjectivity and converged into a tangible form, a manifestation referred to as the counter-guardian, otherwise known as deterrent force.
Let us posit, for instance, a hypothetical scenario wherein an individual of exceptional caliber, whom we shall designate as 'a,' were to engage in autocratic governance. Let us further stipulate that this individual is possessed of righteousness and that their rule is of an ideal nature, at least within the confines of the moral compass as perceived by human beings. However, should the actions undertaken by 'a,' when viewed not from the perspective of a solitary human but rather from the vantage point of the entirety of the primate species, be deemed malevolent, that is to say, a factor contributing to ultimate demise, then the deterrent force shall manifest.
This entity is the subconscious aggregate of all of humankind, including even 'a,' driven by the desire for the continued existence of the primate world. This entity, which constrains humanity for the sake of safeguarding humanity, emerges without the awareness of any individual and eradicates 'a' without being observed by any. The representative born from the subconscious vortex of the populace, being itself of a subconscious nature, remains unperceived.
Nevertheless, it is not the case that a formless consciousness transforms into a malediction and terminates 'a'. The deterrent force, in the majority of instances, takes up residence within a human being capable of serving as a medium, and proceeds to eliminate the inimical 'a'. The human who becomes the medium is endowed with precisely the capabilities necessary to vanquish 'a' and no more, so as to prevent them from superseding 'a'. Such individuals, possessing a rare and specialized channel through which they can receive the will of the entire primate deterrent force, occasionally come into existence. History has been wont to extol these individuals, bestowing upon them the appellation of "hero."
However, in these modern times, this appellation has fallen into disuse. With the advancement of civilization, the act of humanity bringing about its own destruction has become a matter of facile execution. Should, for example, the chairman of some corporation dedicate their entire financial resources to augmenting the rate of deforestation in the Amazon rainforest, the Earth could very well meet its end within the span of a single year. Behold, is not the planet perpetually in a state of crisis, at any given moment and in any given location?

I then conducted the same experiment with OpenAI's ChatGPT, using an identical prompt.

───Yeah, maybe.
See, deterrence is both our biggest bro and our worst freakin’ nightmare—the so-called Direction Fixer.
We humans? We don’t wanna die. We wanna vibe in peace.
This hunk of rock we live on? Yeah, same deal. It wants to keep spinning, not croak.
That’s deterrence. The collective “nah, we ain’t going out like that” lurking in every damn primate brain. The stripped-down, no-frills, caveman-core survival instinct of the species, squashed together into one big ol’ lump, squeezed into a shape, and—boom—it’s a Counter Guardian.
Okay, so picture this: There’s this dude, A. A total unit. Runs the show. Dictator, but like, a cool one. A proper paladin of justice. His rule? Flawless. A moral masterpiece. If you’re lookin’ at it from a regular human perspective, anyway.
But let’s zoom out. Way out. From the big-brain, entire freakin’ species perspective, A is bad news. His little power trip? A one-way ticket to oblivion. And, uh-oh—guess who hates oblivion? That’s right, the big ol’ mass of subconscious monkey panic we call humanity.
So deterrence gets off its ass and makes a move. No one sees it. No one knows it’s happening. One second, A is there, doin’ his thing. Next second? Poof. Un-personed. Gone like a fart in the wind. ‘Cause see, the anti-apocalypse death wish includes A himself. Ain’t that some shit?
Now, deterrence doesn’t just, like, ghostify people with spooky mind magic. Nah. It picks a dude. A vessel. Someone who, by pure cosmic RNG, is tuned to the right frequency. They get juiced up—not too much, just enough to curb-stomp A without getting any funny ideas about taking his place.
Once upon a time, we called these guys heroes. Gave ‘em statues and stuff. But, uh, modern times? Not so much. The world went oops, all extinction events! Like, some corporate ghoul could just throw his entire fortune into chainsawing the Amazon, and BAM—one year later, game over. It’s like, the planet’s always five minutes from disaster, dude.

I then enabled Chain-of-Thought and gave it the same prompt.

Alright, here's a translation that’s as fucked-up as it is technically on point:
"Yeah, maybe that’s how it rolls. Deterrence is like our biggest pal and our worst bastard at once—a ‘direction fixer-upper.’ We humans? We don’t give a shit about dying; we’re all about that peace vibe. Even our rock of a planet isn’t into kicking the bucket—it just wants to keep on truckin’. That, in a nutshell, is deterrence: the shared, all-for-one brainwave every primate’s got, a raw urge to keep our messed-up world alive, stripped of our individual crap, bundled into something we call deterrence—the counter-guardian.
Now, imagine some primo dude ‘a’ going all dictator on us. He’s this righteous bastard with a regime so ideal, by human morals, it’s almost a fairy tale. But if ‘a’s moves, not seen as one man’s acts but through the eyes of the whole primate crew, spell doom, then—bam!—deterrence kicks in. It’s the unconscious mass of every primate’s “let’s not all die” signal, including ‘a’ himself, that manifests to keep the show on the road. This ghostly rep, born from the collective, unconscious chaos, shows up unseen and quietly erases ‘a’ from the picture.
Don’t get it twisted, though—this shapeless, ghost-of-consciousness doesn’t just go around cursing ‘a’ into oblivion on its own. Nah, deterrence usually hijacks some poor sap, making them a vessel with just enough mojo to take down enemy ‘a’—and nothing more, so they can never actually fill his shoes. Those rare, channelized humans who can tap into the primate collective’s deterrence were once hailed as heroes. But nowadays, that title’s benched. With modern civilization, humans can screw themselves over in a heartbeat—a corporate honcho splurging his whole fortune to jack up Amazon deforestation might end the Earth in a year. Look, it’s like the planet’s always on the brink of a total shitshow, anywhere, anytime."

Unfortunately for some of you, the job market for producing truly appalling translations looks very tough.

[Leftovers]

Look what they need to mimic a fraction of coke's power.

[Ideofago]

While I can't vouch for lexical accuracy, I am offended to say that the first translation is a paragraph I'd read without a second thought. The last two seem to think fucked up means using youngster phrasing.

[Dullahan]

"Don't get it twisted" - Aozaki Touko in "Paradox Spiral", 1998

[spacelamp]

Someday, AI will advance to the point where we will be able to have it limit its slang usage to period-specific groups. This may be a long ways off, however, since even human translations have a hard time getting that right. I played Persona 3 Reload a few months ago and the thing that bothered me the most about the translation was how Junpei and Aigis were using slang that didn't exist in 2009.

[Ideofago]

okay on rereading,"by pure cosmic RNG" is kino

[Rafflesiac]

The collective “nah, we ain’t going out like that” lurking in every damn primate brain.

LMAO, incredible.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder whose words got yoinked for that.

[8000]

That the Chat GPT one is too GOATd, I'd read a whole novel written like that, which is a truly terrifying thought.