Sutr just is a Demon/Devil/Daemon however ya wanna translate it. Idk what the Imaginary Numbers thing is you’re talking about off the top of my head.Originally Posted by Marethyu77
Sutr just is a Demon/Devil/Daemon however ya wanna translate it. Idk what the Imaginary Numbers thing is you’re talking about off the top of my head.
Wdym? The Aristotles were always made out of Grain and OG Black Barrel was always said to be anti-Grain
It’s description in Notes was literally “Because it is made of a mineral that conflicts with Grain, it is quite possible to say that the Black Barrel is the natural enemy of all life-forms that contain even a minuscule amount of Grain[…]It is the God-Slaying Gun, if the weapon's target contains a great power, in other words-Grain, the bullet's killing capacity will rise in proportion to the amount of Grain within.”, at least in the translation I read
What would Van-Fem do if winner asked for one of his "Daugthers" as a bride for prize
I think Dartz got confused by the mistake that I mentioned earlier. CM2006 mentions that Black Barrel destroys 第五架空要素 (Fifth Imaginary Factor), which it also calls True Ether(Gin), while the Black Barrel itself is 第五真説要素 (Fifth Canonical Factor). The problem is that in every other source we have, 第五真説要素 (Fifth Canonical Factor) is True Ether, and that certainly seems to make more sense given the words and all. Also, in the original Notes, they are not made out of True Ether, but just Ether, which it, in turn, equates to Gin a.k.a. Grain, while never bringing up the other two terms. Honestly, this whole thing is such a massive clusterfuck of inconsistencies that I genuinely don't think its worth thinking about.
Last edited by Petrikow; Yesterday at 04:49 PM.
Again, it got changed in 2006 CM. Originally the Black Barrel was made of a mineral that destroyed Grain/Ether and Aristotles were made out of Grain. So far so good, but then when CM came around and now the Black Barrel is made out of the Fifth True Element (True Ether) causing the Fifth Imaginary Element (fake Ether) to destroy itself:
Of course, this makes no sense. Because the Aristotles, and the energy that makes up planets is categorized as True Ether per post 2006 lore. So the Black Barrel couldn't destroy Aristotles using the exact same thing unless True Ether is meant to destroy itself.The black gun that Godot used. It was a weapon crafted using the true fifth element that causes the fifth imaginary element to destroy itself. The Six Sisters called it a conceptual weapon of "a natural lifespan."
A bullet fired from this gun is a magical gunshot that inflicts a wound bypassing any kind of ability value as long as the target operates on True Ether. It's akin to a cancer cell driven directly into the body.
One of the reasons why humans fell from the crown of creation was their inability to deal with the Grain that filled the atmosphere, which is fatal when inhaled. This new energy, Grain, refused humanity and caused it to become the weakest living organisms on Earth. However, the Black Barrel was a weapon that suddenly reversed this flaw. It was highly versatile with every kind of option available via the exchanging of parts, and it could even be used as a sniper rifle. Its unmodified form was similar to a rifle with a curved stock.
At the time of excavation, there were two guns, the original and the replica. Godot's favorite was the original.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Ah ok, I was confused by your wording, before I thought you were saying that the rules of Black Barrel described in Notes didn’t make sense by 2006 and that CM retconned the Aristotles to be made of Grain, as if they weren’t in Notes
Frankly then, I’d just entirely disregard the CM description as nonsense then, because the Notes description makes sense and the CM description doesn’t, so why bother paying attention to the one that doesn’t? Especially since that CM description hasn’t been brought back up to be relevant in anything in the past 19 years.
Last edited by Pjf238; Yesterday at 05:54 PM.
The Black Barrel hasn't been relevant since Notes either, so it might well be a retcon. The replica doesn't work the same.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
I mean sure but I’d offer more validity towards an explanation that makes sense but hasn’t been relevant in 26 years over a retcon that doesn’t make sense and hasn’t been relevant in 19 years, it’s a relative scale lol
Also I figure the whole reason Nasu shifted focus with the Replica onto lifespans was probably specifically to avoid this web of nonsense
(Even the explanation that maybe True Ether is self-destructive towards itself is contradictory because then it ruins the fact that the Black Barrel was supposed to only be safely usable by Godo and if it’s made of True Ether it shouldn’t be because Grain/True Ether was described as outright harmful to humans in Notes and, by the looks of the quote you posted from it, that seems to still be the case in CM)
Last edited by Pjf238; Yesterday at 06:20 PM.
Iirc Surtr is described as a Hollow being, though I can't find where, and I wondered if that was more a general Daemon thing or specific to him
The later is more relevant to the current setting given Grain is equated to True Ether. I love Notes, always have, but I don't put much weight into that side story due to how old it is. I'm sure if you questioned Nasu on the stuff he wrote in Notes he'd be pretty annoyed. Nasu already considers 2006 CM to be "old setting" that doesn't mix with his new lore, which is why he was pissed with Narita for bringing background lore in 2006 CM.
It's best to think of Notes as an stand-alone side story and not think too hard about the setting's lore in regards to the new setting.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
Idk, I think Grain being equated to True Ether is still perfectly functional within Notes’s own explanation, that’s more of a semantics issue, which I’d consider to be a much smaller problem than CM’s logical issues
I think Notes still fits in fairly well solely due to its decision to remain completely vague on the specific mineral that the Black Barrel was made of
Last edited by Pjf238; Yesterday at 06:53 PM.
I mean you're basically arguing Nasu had an aneurysm and referred to the fuel for the Black Barrel as True Ether despite it definitely not being True Ether, and certainly anything but. Nobody here is going to agree with that. The mineral isn't vague, it's True Ether, quite explicitly.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
What? That’s not what I said at all?
I was explicitly talking about Notes’ description of it, where, yes, it was kept vague, just being called “a mineral that conflicts with Grain”
I was not and am not talking about CM, I thought we already agreed that explanation was a mess so I was moving on to discuss why I thought the Notes explanation still worked
The goal of Ophelia's family succeeded with her eye being unable to help but summon Surtr, whose whole 'twisted wish' thing line up with the 6th element's known characteristics. Re-read the post here for more information.
The Imaginary Numbers/Second Magic/Odin thing doesn't make much sense though.
I mean I’d argue that the solution to 3/4 problems you raised there previously is just to disregard CM’s assertion that the Black Barrel is made of True Ether
I’m not saying Nasu “had an aneurysm” writing it lol, I just think it was a poorly thought out retcon that does nothing but raise issues
Last edited by Pjf238; Yesterday at 08:18 PM.
Shouldn't he be a Giant?
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
(Check out my Super Special Awesome Servant Compendium here)
The Ether thing will be resolved after the Notes event in FGO
Not unlikely tbh, for better or worse
Idk what else Nasu could’ve meant by there being so many crossover events for FGO that he wanted to do that he hadn’t done yet that it felt like he could throw up last year otherwise, unless he’s planning on finally making DDD and Fire Girl canon to the Nasuverse lol (the reference to throwing up would be apt if Yukio was there)
Last edited by Pjf238; Today at 02:37 AM.
Myeah but also the sane approach to canon is to just stick to whatever has been published the most recently, even if it is bad or contradicts everything else.
Of course, the actual sane approach to canon is to not even think about it in the first place. But if you have to at least set down a simple rule.
Petri's arbitrary limit
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