Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Tohno]

Just stumbled into the Shiki wanking, was on my way out but this caught my eye.



So...Shiki can react and to and destroy something moving several magnitudes faster than the speed of sound without repercussion.

...

O.o

You're obviously not paying attention. This is Shirou wanking. Canon says Shiki wins.

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Am I the only one that reads "in an instant" as being very fast and not as being truly instantaneous. Like if I was to say "I got out of bed in an instant" I wouldn't assume other people would think I literally teleported out of bed but just got out of bed fastish.

Yes. Think of it as speed that infinitely approaches instantaneous, but never quite reaches it. (as that would be Magic).

Without a scratch is a bit farfetched. He probably is considered to have his fueled-by-hatred mode engaged if he is in orgy mode though, so he would likely have time to lethally counter attack.

Hey, how many swords can Shirou throw at him? Shiki was killing masses and masses of beasts and even Unicorns and shit. He's fucking fast.
Besides, if it did get to many, just flash step away.

[eddyak]

Before or after he gets chopped to bits?

Shiki is not likely to dodge something like Nine Lives or Gae Bulg.

He doesn't need to. Shirou needs to stand still for at least a second or two to use either of those (one of which we've never seen him use because he probably can't without frying his circuits or something), and that's more than enough time for Shiki to kill him.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

This discussion is making my head hurt.

I'm just going to ignore it and lullaby myself to sleep by counting inconsistencies in Nasu power levels. ^c^

[Lycodrake]

Sad that the canon is on my side, not yours?

[Tohno]

Alright, let’s get this down.
If an ability used by Shirou is not instantaneous/really quick (as in, if it is one second or more), Shiki can flash-step stab.

[eddyak]

Yes. Think of it as speed that infinitely approaches instantaneous, but never quite reaches it. (as that would be Magic).

"Instant" by human standards, remember. DAAs and Servants are casual bullet timers.

[terraablaze]

No, but he is very, very fast. Fast enough to slaughter several beasts feeding on him in an instant. Fast enough to mostly evade an eye-sight reliant origami technique (which is fucking fast, considering the speed of light being what it is. If you’re wondering what that has to do with sight, go back to physics.)

Slice. Slice. Slice. Slice. Slice. With each sound, another beast dies.

In an instant apparently means one at a time.
Also excuse me, did you just try to say he can move faster then the speed of light? I'm sorry but that's not how the speed of sight works. Perhaps you would like to look up how nerves work in a biology text book. Or is Ryougi Shiki almost faster then light now too?

[Fingolfin]

Sad that the canon is on my side, not yours?

NASU's canon is about as trustworthy as my local drug dealer.

No, but he is very, very fast. Fast enough to slaughter several beasts feeding on him in an instant. Fast enough to mostly evade an eye-sight reliant origami technique (which is fucking fast, considering the speed of light being what it is. If you’re wondering what that has to do with sight, go back to physics.)

Shiki get's a taste of the Gay Bulge.

End of story.

Yes, but he was prepared. That doesn’t afford him Servant-like god reflexes.

Yes. Yes, it does.

Alright then, allow me to explain.
Shiki and Shirou.
If Shiki gets within melee range, he wins.
Any attack type NP that touches him can be killed.
If it’s a beam, he can probably evade, with injury. But as in Bad End 39, that doesn’t stop him from getting within melee range.
Any protective barrier can be killed.
9 Lives Blade Works won’t work if the weapon is killed, obviously.
In short: Shirou’s death is inevitable.

Allow me to explain, good sir.

Shirou pulls out that big Gae Bulge, and sticks it deep into Shiki's heart. This love story is inevitable. It's one for the ages.

Which is why he can take on 18 swords no problem.

If you totally ignore which weapons Shirou uses, sure.

[BlackField]

Yes. Think of it as speed that infinitely approaches instantaneous, but never quite reaches it. (as that would be Magic).

But thats what I'm arguing against. I don't think Nasu means close to instantaneous, he just means fast. Its poetic language not actual speeds.

[Tohno]

In an instant apparently means one at a time.
Also excuse me, did you just try to say he can move faster then the speed of light? I'm sorry but that's not how the speed of sight works. Perhaps you would like to look up how nerves work in a biology text book. Or is Ryougi Shiki almost faster the light now too?

No I didn't. Would you like a book that helps you learn how to read? I'm sorry, but I don't have one.

[Tobias]

Just as a general note flash step isn't a teleport. It's a technique for breaking an enemy line of sight which makes it useful as hell for dodging or setting up assassination techniques. But don't get toooooo carried away on it's effectiveness.

[Santo]

Alright, let’s get this down.
If an ability used by Shirou is not instantaneous/really quick (as in, if it is one second or more), Shiki can flash-step stab.

So...Nine Lives Bladeworks...which landed eight hits in the time it took Blackened Herzkerker to land one attack going at the speed of sound...is not fast enough so that Shiki can't stab it.

...

I'm taking a page from YOLF's book on this one. xD

[eddyak]

Alright, let’s get this down.
If an ability used by Shirou is not instantaneous/really quick (as in, if it is one second or more), Shiki can flash-step stab.

He doesn't need flash step. This fight goes down like Shirou vs Gil: Shiki kills all of Shirou's weapons, one by one, Shirou backing away to buy time to project new weapons, Shiki advancing and killing the weapons swung at him. Let's say eventually Shirou stops to use a magic burst weapon. Either he barely manages to get it off in time and disintegrates Shiki, or Shiki gets in there before he manages it and kills him.

There's no sword rain, there's no masses of magic weapons, there's no flash steps or super ninja line of sight breaking techniques.

[Tohno]

NASU's canon is about as trustworthy as my local drug dealer.



Shiki get's a taste of the Gay Bulge.

End of story.




Yes. Yes, it does.



Allow me to explain, good sir.

Shirou pulls out that big Gae Bulge, and sticks it deep into Shiki's heart. This love story is inevitable. It's one for the ages.



If you totally ignore which weapons Shirou uses, sure.

No, my dear fanwanker. Rely on fanfiction rather than Nasu canon if you like, but get this straight:


Shirou has highly-honed reflexes, but not on the level of a Servant. THIS IS A FACT.
Gae Bulge takes a small while to activate. In this time, Shiki can kill him easily. THIS IS A FACT.
Shiki will always always always beat Shirou in a fight like this. THIS IS A FACT.
MEoDP cannot be stopped by armour or magic or enchanments. Shiki’s flash step affords him the ability to close distances in mere moments. Anything Shirou does that takes more than a few moments to prepare an attack is gonna let himself get killed. THIS IS A FACT.

[terraablaze]

No, but he is very, very fast. Fast enough to slaughter several beasts feeding on him in an instant. Fast enough to mostly evade an eye-sight reliant origami technique (which is fucking fast, considering the speed of light being what it is. If you’re wondering what that has to do with sight, go back to physics.)

Fast enough to mostly evade an eye-sight reliant origami technique (which is fucking fast, considering the speed of light being what it is. If you’re wondering what that has to do with sight, go back to physics.)

(which is fucking fast, considering the speed of light being what it is. If you’re wondering what that has to do with sight, go back to physics.)

No, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you did. Or is this whole statement a horrendous typo? Please explain how this is not implying the upper limit of speed we are working with for Oragami and sight is not the speed of light itself and not whatever Nasu think the speed of visual processing is.

[Tohno]

So...Nine Lives Bladeworks...which landed eight hits in the time it took Blackened Herzkerker to land one attack going at the speed of sound...is not fast enough so that Shiki can't stab it.

...

I'm taking a page from YOLF's book on this one. xD

As in it TAKES A WHILE TO CHARGE UP. -_-

Don't you read? Look, he raises his arm, and Shiki cuts it off. Simple. Good night sweet faker.

[BlackField]

He doesn't need flash step. This fight goes down like Shirou vs Gil: Shiki kills all of Shirou's weapons, one by one, Shirou backing away to buy time to project new weapons, Shiki advancing and killing the weapons swung at him. Let's say eventually Shirou stops to use a magic burst weapon. Either he barely manages to get it off in time and disintegrates Shiki, or Shiki gets in there before he manages it and kills him.

There's no sword rain, there's no masses of magic weapons, there's no flash steps or super ninja line of sight breaking techniques.

Fucking this. Someone stop the thread now.

[Tobias]

I'm confused, are we still arguing the hypothetical no overflow thing or has most people just lost it all together and completely going against established Word Of God about shiki winning?

[Tohno]

No, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you did. Or is this whole statement a horrendous typo? Please explain how this is not implying the upper limit of speed we are working with for Oragami and sight is not the speed of light itself and not whatever Nasu think the speed of visual processing is.

In other words: The moment Akiha laid eyes on him, he would be dead, because of the speed of light. However, he crosses an entire hallway with only his leg being able to enter her vision.

That's fucking fast. Considering the whole hallway is entering her eyesight. Slipping into one blind spot with only a lost leg, and cutting before he can be seen.

[eddyak]

I'm confused, are we still arguing the hypothetical no overflow thing or has most people just lost it all together and completely going against established Word Of God about shiki winning?

Apparently the good detective doesn't trust Nasu's take on the Nasuverse.