But he wasn't sent because of the people's cry, he was sent because the gods wanted their tool to behave.Originally Posted by Arha
But he wasn't sent because of the people's cry, he was sent because the gods wanted their tool to behave.
Enkidu goes "Gilgamesh you might be totally right but I can't let you do that to yourself bro.".
Truly, we should think that Gilgamesh is wrong from this act.
Ignoring context weakens the entire argument. Should've left the Enkidu bit out.
Last edited by Siriel; November 19th, 2013 at 06:58 PM.
Ragnarok, come day of wrath
That fallen souls might bear our plea.
To hasten the Divine's return.
O piteous Wanderer.
Except Enkidu's appearance had nothing to do with suffering peasants. It all about the gods' will.
Gilgamesh only terrorized the people so that they'd cry out to the gods for help and get none, making them realize that they have to stand on their own two feet instead of relying on outside forces and ushering in the age of man.
It was for our own good, honest.
Not agreeing with the assessment of the king does not mean he was wrong.
Them disliking his actions does not mean he was wrong.
Them saying it was wrong does not mean it was wrong.
Wrong is defined by society and in a Despotism only one person has power in the society, the despot.
Gilgamesh was the despot so he had power to define what was wrong.
The people were not the despot so they did not have the power to define what was wrong.
Gilgamesh did not define what he did was wrong.
Therefor Gilgamesh was not wrong.
There, I just wrote out the argument out for you in very simple terms and form.
Siriel was right, you think society and people is an interchangeable term. It is not, get that out of your head right now.
Last edited by Knick; November 19th, 2013 at 07:02 PM.
Iinstantlybelieveyou
The story the people passed down was that the gods sent Enkidu to punish him. The story portrays him as being in the wrong. The fact that the gods actually sent Enkidu for a different reason is interesting but irrelevant. They're not the ones who told the story. The truth that Gilgamesh was a defective tool was apparently known by very few individuals. It did not make it into the story, but the story still existed during the time of Uruk.
Knick: I'm sorry, but you're stupid. Society is not government, society is a group of people that share a common cultural identity, values, interests or at least proximity. Society can believe that the king is above the law and above moral failings, but in this case they didn't. All you have done is prove that Gilgamesh did nothing illegal.
Last edited by Arha; November 19th, 2013 at 07:06 PM.
It must have really pissed everybody off when the divine punishment they prayed for finally showed up and instead of doing any divine punishing, it and Gil just traipsed off to have buddy buddy adventures.
"So I know the real reason why X happens, but I'm going to disregard that in favour of my headcanon".
Because Nasu's version of legends don't matter at all in Nasu's universe. Good to know you're an idiot.
You guys have different definitions of "wrong" in the first place. This argument has been pointless since the very start.
The law's never been about right and wrong, though. The point of law is to maintain order.
FGO Supports
They might have just been "Well good enough he's not tyrannizing us anymore.".
And then Gil started bringing back a ton of cool stuff.
Ragnarok, come day of wrath
That fallen souls might bear our plea.
To hasten the Divine's return.
O piteous Wanderer.
From now on rape is badong.
(Someone better get the reference.)
You're missing the point. Society rejected Gilgamesh's stance on rape and asked an outside force to intervene. That is all that matters here. To make this claim irrelevant you would have to prove that this was not part of the story told by the people of Uruk in the Nasuverse.
They should have thought twice about creating a person out of clay. I mean, it was pretty obvious Enkidu would be malleable enough to be NTR'd by Gil.
Kung Pow.
Ragnarok, come day of wrath
That fallen souls might bear our plea.
To hasten the Divine's return.
O piteous Wanderer.
... holy crap it is like talking to a wall.
In the society not everyone has power, especially in a despotism it is a society in which the King was given absolute power by a consensus of the people at some point.
The society gave over their power to define right and wrong for the society, sure they can have personal morals as the individual people, but none of that has any basis on the morals of the society.
For the society, Gil was simply impossible to be wrong, cause the morals of the society said he was not wrong.
Personal morals are irreverent in this cause we are talking about this society, note in my argument I said "Them saying it was wrong does not mean it was wrong." Even if they personally believed he was wrong he was not wrong in the society.
This is because it is all talking on the scale of the society as a whole and not on the levels of individuals.
Oh and who defines the morals of the society? Oh right the despot, Gilgamesh.
Also I am just going to end up repeating myself cause I feel like you won't get it. And since I still have to eat and do work for tomorrow, that will be it for me.
Last edited by Knick; November 19th, 2013 at 07:16 PM.
Once again, Enkidu's creation has nothing to do the people, IN THE NASUVERSE. Society was inconvenienced by Gilgamesh's change from perfect boy king whose actions were wholly to their benefit to absolute arbiter whose actions are beyond reproach. Just because they didn't like it doesn't make it wrong or bad.
Here's a curious quote on the tyranny of King Gilgamesh:
CCC
And that is why any attempt to judge Gilgamesh by any other standard other than his own is inherently flawed.
Last edited by Leftovers; November 19th, 2013 at 07:21 PM.
Your argument is ridiculous. Gilgamesh is not a society by himself because a society is made up of multiple members. He can declare laws and compel obedience, but when he declares morality, the people disagree. Yes, they have less power than he does. He could kill them all or simply point out that he's the king and makes the law. He does not, however, change what they believe. The society holds certain values and standards. They cannot enforce them because they have no power, but that does not mean they do not exist.
And yes, you will definitely keep repeating yourself because you don't realize what a society is, meaning there's a fundamental incompatibility in what we are saying.
There is no such thing as society.
Then why am I an edgy rebel?
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