Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Vigilantia]

If you want to go powerlevels then that was specifically an incomplete Excaliblast due to lack of prana.

It's just that I didn't provide context because I was continuing the joke.

Well, this is the questions thread. However, you'll remember that straight from the VN: Caliburn > Excalibur in combat potential.

Except, Caliburn can cut straight through the stone sword and straight through Herk's arm. The explanation previously was that Saber was using Invisible Air except... If Saber used Excalibur without Invis Air and hit the stone sword then Herk's sword should have broke and killed Herkales several times (Since, you know, that's what happens with Ex-caliburn beamu).

I suppose Nasu, as always, didn't want to reveal his Uber Surprise of Herk has extra lives in an early Dead End so he probably omitted it in writing.

[Siriel]

No, the extra lives are known by that point.

The real answer is probably something along the line of (random numbers incoming):

Caliburn's light deals 600 damage every swing without needing the owner to active it.

Excalibur's beam deals (prana) x 100 damage.

So Excalibur is stronger at full power and has a bigger AOE but requires a ton more prana to use.

[Mcjon01]

It's because the Caliburn Shirou projected had hundreds of times his maximum capacity's worth of magical energy in it, which means 27x10x1000(is technically "hundreds") = 27,000 units of magical energy in one attack, or roughly 30 excaliblasts at once. Nothing can survive.

[Siriel]

It's because the Caliburn Shirou projected had hundreds of times his maximum capacity's worth of magical energy in it, which means 27x10x1000(is technically "hundreds") = 27,000 units of magical energy in one attack, or roughly 30 excaliblasts at once. Nothing can survive.

So since Gilgamesh's Merodach is described as doing the same thing as that Caliburn, it has that amount of prana too!

[shiningphoenix]

You do not know what "word of god" means do you?

The author can give a contradiction, if they wanted to, and say both statements are true, and it would be in the context of that fictional universe no matter what anyone says.

Want to know why? Cause they are the only and absolute authority on everything in that fictional universe. Anything anyone else thinks, says, and reasons means jack shit in the context of that universe unless the Author says it is part of the universe.

If you have A and !A, no statement is meaningful, because from those premises, any conclusion is logically valid.

e.g.:

1. If (A & !A), then Shinji has High-Speed Divine Words EX.
2. If (A & !A), then statement 1 is false
3. If (A & !A), then statement 1 is true

[Christemo]

So since Gilgamesh's Merodach is described as doing the same thing as that Caliburn, it has that amount of prana too!

Just add in that Gil has like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000 units of magical energy.

[forumghost]

If you have A and !A, no statement is meaningful, because from those premises, any conclusion is logically valid.

e.g.:

1. If (A & !A), then Shinji has High-Speed Divine Words EX.
2. If (A & !A), then statement 1 is false
3. If (A & !A), then statement 1 is true

But having A and !A is kinda the bread-and-butter of Heroic Spirits. It is literally a pre-requisite for them to achieve something that is logically impossible- See Saber and her "Won 12 battles that it was literally impossible for me to win"

[shiningphoenix]

But having A and !A is kinda the bread-and-butter of Heroic Spirits. It is literally a pre-requisite for them to achieve something that is logically impossible- See Saber and her "Won 12 battles that it was literally impossible for me to win"

There are two far more likely possibilities:

1. [Nasu / the character saying that]{1} is being dramatic, and the statement that those things are impossible for her is not intended to be taken literally.
2. That translation is faulty.

I'm inclined to believe #1.

{1}: I'm not sure if that statement is something Nasu said as the author, or something said in-character in some work.

[bahamut zero]

I just stumbled upon a very curious statement while looking up something completely different:

Like TYPE-MOON, Gainax has a history of insulting its fans, and has done so for many years, but this is the first time the fans actually succeeded in causing massive destruction, likely because "2ch.net" has become too important a Japanese cultural icon to screw with.

http://forums.upnetwork.net/archive/...php/t-163.html

Is someone able to elaborate on the TM part?

[aldeayeah]

If you have A and !A, no statement is meaningful, because from those premises, any conclusion is logically valid.

But what if the Nasuverse follows a paraconsistent logic system?

[shiningphoenix]

But what if the Nasuverse follows a paraconsistent logic system?

Hmm... I still think it's more likely that Nasu is just being dramatic when he says someone did something and that that thing is simultaneously impossible. (Specifically, I am inclined to believe that he's being dramatic when he says the thing is impossible.)

Or maybe he's not using the same definition of impossible as we seem to be assuming? Maybe he means impossible in the sense of "you're being impossible!" -- i.e., a certain kind of annoying. (e.g., "resurrection is impossible without X" means "resurrection without X really annoys me")

[terraablaze]

If Zelretch summoned a billion Emiya Shirous from alternate universes into one universe, would Excalibur and Ea become the only swords valid for heroic spirit worthy deeds?

EDIT: Slight change that could technically have been a clarification: Assume that by Zelretch I mean the magic, not necessarily the person.

Projection isn't really copying in the way you are thinking of it. If it was, the World wouldn't crush the "copies". The translators used the term projection because it's supposed to give you an idea of what is happening. Imagine Shirou is shining a light through the slide that is the actual weapon as it exists in it's Platonic perfection and the image that shows up on the wall is what he is hitting people with. He just does it so well it takes longer for the World to realize something is wrong.

[ratstsrub]

Projection isn't really copying in the way you are thinking of it. If it was, the World wouldn't crush the "copies". The translators used the term projection because it's supposed to give you an idea of what is happening. Imagine Shirou is shining a light through the slide that is the actual weapon as it exists in it's Platonic perfection and the image that shows up on the wall is what he is hitting people with. He just does it so well it takes longer for the World to realize something is wrong.

The world is a Hologram. Projection brings into existence imaginary bits on the 2D cosmological horizon which shows up in our 3D world as the items those bits represent.

[Guy]

There are two far more likely possibilities:

1. [Nasu / the character saying that]{1} is being dramatic, and the statement that those things are impossible for her is not intended to be taken literally.
2. That translation is faulty.

I'm inclined to believe #1.

{1}: I'm not sure if that statement is something Nasu said as the author, or something said in-character in some work.

HS literally do the impossible, that's the whole point of them.

[Kirby]

Are you sure? I thought the only thing about their legend was that they were made with a human sacrifice, which made them divine or something, which is why they are good monster slayers.

[Kat]

I remember Li Shun Wen recognizing Kansho and Bakuya in pre-battle banter between Archer and him. They must be somewhat famous, at least to Chinese martial artists.

[Siriel]

Are you sure? I thought the only thing about their legend was that they were made with a human sacrifice, which made them divine or something, which is why they are good monster slayers.

Archer's replica aren't good monster slayers.

That was Nasu talking about "what if the real versions of K&B that reached the realm of gods showed up".

[I3uster]

wasnt it pretty much an rpg joke

[terraablaze]

Q: If the original Kansho and Bakuya take the stage in the Holy Grail War, as the twin swords reaching the realm of Gods due to the sacrifice of human lives, will they possess powers as Noble Phantasms? Or, since they did not have wielders in the legend, thus cannot become Noble Phantasms?
A: Absolutely without a doubt that they will be true Noble Phantasms. They will be extremely strong anti-monster Noble Phantasms. Rider's ultimate form--Gorgon Lv100, or the extra-dimensional evil god summoned by Gilles, will all be cut down in a single strike.

Sounds less like a hypothetical scenario on par with "what if Seven was a Noble Phantasm" and really more like what Beamu is saying, Archer just must have modified them heavily.

^
it's a joke alright but in Nasuland jokes can become truer than anything else. See the downfall of Ciel into curry madness. Or really the entire Zelretch vs Crimson Moon fight.

[Siriel]

wasnt it pretty much an rpg joke

That description would cover like a third of what Nasu ever says.