You mean like phantasmals or ships like ship of light and vimana?Originally Posted by Ordep
You mean like phantasmals or ships like ship of light and vimana?
So, I have some questions about Tamamo's lore, specifically her Noble Phantasm. I get the overall gist of it, it's the Yata no Kagami, Amaterasu's mirror. But I would like to understand if it has some actual connection to the legend of Tamamo-no-Mae and not only to her syncretism with Amaterasu.
The NP's description says it's the released form of the Tamamo Shizu-ishi/Weightstone of Tamamo, but I could never find any mention of this object except from Tamamo's Fate profiles. Is this stone the same as the Killing Stone/Sessho-seki she became after her death? Or is it some other artifact altogether?
Also, why does she call it Uka-no-Kagami during her NP chant instead of Yata-no-Kagami? Is it an alternate name? A reference to the Ise Grand Shrine, which houses the mirror and is divided into an inner and an outer shrine, with the former dedicated to Amaterasu and the latter to Toyouke-Oomikami (considered the same as Uka-no-Mitama)? Something else entirely?
And finally, why is it Suiten Nikkou? Is there any mythological connection between Amaterasu and Varuna? (Suiten is his japanese name). Or is it referring symply to a heaven with water? Is this heaven Takamagahara, Tokoyo-no-kuni or something else? And is the octuple part of the name a reference to its identity as the Yata (Eight Ata) Mirror or does the number eight have some sacred significance?
I know it's a lot of questions, but it's really hard to find sources in English about topics like these that are deeply rooted into Japanese religion, so I'm trying my luck with the good people that understand Japanese here. I really like Tamamo, so I'd like to understand her character in a deeper way.
Using the F/Extra materials description as guidance, the Tamamo Shizu-ishi is brought from Takamagahara to earth by one of the childs born from Amaterasu and Susanoo's very heated brother and sister moment that led to his exile and Amaterasu going hiatus in the cave. This child's name is varied betweem sources and the Nihonshoki as well as Kojiki, so just know that this child (referred to as an Ookuninushi in the mats), enshrined it in Izumo shrine, the shrine where Okuni used to work at) brought a bunch of good stuffs with him, and some of those became treasures of various noble clans. The Tamamo Shizu-ishi, within the context of Fate, is allegedly one of them.
So why Nasu claimed that it is originally the Yata no Kagami? Well, apparently there are stories about Emperor Sujin wanted to see the shintai enshrined at Izumo shrine to be sent to him, and it was a mirror. Who knows what Amaterasu did to the poor guy but he got so scared of Amaterasu afterwards, but I guess it's in character. I still have no idea where the name Tamamo Shizuishi came from tho, but perhaps because nobody knew the full details of those divine treasures so Nasu can just make up w/e, like he always did.
Uka-no-mitama is a god identified with Inari. The Nihonshoki claimed that this god was born when Izanagi and Izanami was hungry and created abundant of food. So you can see some of the Inari = Amaterasu line there. Tho if you go by Kojiki it's Susanoo's and Kushinadahime's child instead.Also, why does she call it Uka-no-Kagami during her NP chant instead of Yata-no-Kagami? Is it an alternate name? A reference to the Ise Grand Shrine, which houses the mirror and is divided into an inner and an outer shrine, with the former dedicated to Amaterasu and the latter to Toyouke-Oomikami (considered the same as Uka-no-Mitama)? Something else entirely?
Suiten was identified with Amenominakanushi later on. And Amenominakanushi is THE very first god of Shinto to came into existence, ruling Takamagahara. The position passed down to later gods such as Izanagi and then Amaterasu. So it makes sense there is a reference to him. Kinda like in Chinese myth there are multiple Jade Emperors, with the original one is a supreme sun god name Donghuang Taiyi (who later has traces passed down to Xihe - the sun goddess that became the prototype of Amaterasu).And finally, why is it Suiten Nikkou? Is there any mythological connection between Amaterasu and Varuna? (Suiten is his japanese name). Or is it referring symply to a heaven with water? Is this heaven Takamagahara, Tokoyo-no-kuni or something else? And is the octuple part of the name a reference to its identity as the Yata (Eight Ata) Mirror or does the number eight have some sacred significance?
Mount Olympus.
What's the deal with Nero Draco and all the last encore elements from arcade collab? I mean Nero Draco is supposed to be a Nero who didnt die, right? Did they just insert last encore elements for no reason? Also nero draco looking back after hakuno/n's silhoutte kinda implying she knows them, she doesnt know them right?
It would be interesting to evaluate both separately and then give a final conclusion considering everything.
This isn't a Type-Moon question, but is it just me, or does the forum look really weird now?
Weird how?
In bottom left, the VERY bottom left of the page you're on, you have several UI styles to choose from. But most every sane person uses Black Beast of Chaos (Modern)
Lilim Harlot is an expansion of some of Last Encore's themes and ideas, they're doing intertext.
Since Void is the personality of the body that means that if Ryougi physically died, Void also dies, right? The 2 shikis were said to be also the personality of the mind but what about the soul or i guess all 3 personalities of the mind and body share the same soul?
Which routes in Tsuki(both OG and Re) where Tohno doesn't have long to live? The one in Sasaki manga is implied to be that, but I wonder if it's hinted at in the vn proper.
Mario tells him he can only work for him for 10 years given his current condition. That's the most explicit estimate of his life expectancy so far.
The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.
Tsukihime 2 Prelude III
The reasons Shiki doesn't have long are route neutral, it applies to all of them.
Yeah I think the implication is that he’s fucked no matter what after the SHIKI incident. He technically should have died there anyway so he’s on literally borrowed time.
Well, that's sad. 10 years is still quite long though. Maybe if he were vampirized it would've been longer.
I think that’s probably the intended thought process yeah. I feel like going from feeling like “10 Years is so short…” to “Well that’s a lot of time for him to spend” is a good journey you as a player go on in Tsukihime. Classic bittersweet feeling Nasu writing. Appreciate what you have and all that.
Honestly Shiki when his time is running out feels like a good writing prompt.
It's important to note that the 10 year figure wasn't in the original, I think it was added mainly for the sake of Ciel Normal (and possible future endings.)
Fucked up that Shiki wouldn’t have survived the wait for the Tsukihime remake.
Thanks a lot, Emilio! Was kinda expecting to find out that there was some deeper connection between Tamamo (as just Tamamo, not Amaterasu) and the Mirror, but turns out Tamamo Shizu-ishi is really just an original name, huh.
Changing the subject a bit, I recalled a discussion here in the forum about Takeru's sword (the Ame-no-Murakumo) and how it also has a prototype in Chinese legends, but I can't seem to find the post. Can anyone remember this connection?
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