make britain great again
make britain great again
Originally Posted by Paulie25
It's not that I forgot that plot point, but rather I would argue it's a case of "show don't tell" since Artoria's depiction within the scenes we do see doesn't correlate 1:1 to what we're told about how she acts within her backstory.
Like taking "Idylls of the King" as an example off the top of my head, the Tournament of Dead Innocence scene is so important as the KoRT are acting in such a vile manner that the people watching both in-universe and out of it are expected to lose all sympathy for them and you understand why the once ideal Camelot fell apart by the end as its no longer filled with virtuous people. Instead in the Nasuverse version of events all we get is "the king doesn't understand the heart of the people" line by Tristan and we're just expected to roll with it. It just doesn't work for me is all I'm saying.
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I mean, Camelot in general both in actual mythology and the Nasuverse is full of anachronisms, so Artoria being the High-King of Britain is right in line with that anyway.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
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This is really why I'm not happy about Nasu arbitrarily deciding Saber's story is "done" and therefore refusing to use her again in her proper context, because even if her character arc is done, the arcs of dozens of other characters revolve around her, and because she has to be this phantom that's always hovering over the narrative, nothing ever makes sense. Like imagine we get playable Guinevere and we barely get any elaboration on her feelings towards Artoria outside of like 5 paragraphs on her Servant profile, because we aren't actually allowed to see them interacting in a mundane context.
And he knows this because two of the story arcs in FGO are him trying to talk about Artoria without technically using Artoria.
I've never thought about that before but that's absolutely true now that you say it.
Willingly letting entire villages be destroyed by enemy forces just as a mean to win the whole battle is pretty heartless and something the populace would definitely complain about, so I don't really agree.
Her heartlessness as a king is the same dilemma Kiritsugu and Shirou have, but amplified. If your king is willing to sacrifice everything for the greater good and doesn't even show any sign of regret or internal-conflict, you're going to question their character.
Have you ever heard the phrase "Your words insult the Queen"?Because then you should run very fast
Yeah exactly, it’s exactly that example that predates them first saying “The King does no understand the human heart”, they don’t just drop it out of nowhere.
Fate Route Day 12
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Altho this does actually elaborate it’s not just her sacrificing her own villages but also that when she killed her enemies she was really thorough and didn’t show any emotions. This makes it sound like Saber didn’t take prisoners and usually fought until all enemies were dead, which when she shows no visible guilt will naturally make the people think she’s a robot.
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Iirc Garden of Avalon also makes a point of how Saber didn’t really do anything about the Lancelot killing random people and taking his wife thing, which we come to know is because “Oh Lancelot’s a just knight, I’m sure he loves Guinevere more than I, I hope they live happily : )” but the people would naturally take this as “Yo does King Arthur really just not give a shit?”
Artoria pls. He killed Gareth.
Do we need to see king Artoria interact with anyone when we're already been told how she acted and behaved during her entire rule? All that would change is how the receiver reacts to the personality and action we are already familiar with, in which case it doesn't necessitate dialogue using Artoria herself.
Speaking of I'm waiting for old man Pellinore to be added so I can absolutely blame Gawain for killing the 4th best gramps.
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It would have an Artoria who's not how we see her in Stay Night (and to a lesser extent Zero) so the shippers would die inside and go in denial. Again.
To be told something is very different from seeing it for yourself. That's just how I see it. I'd much rather see things happening than be told "and then it happened like this" in an expository scene. I realize saying this is kind of laughable in a franchise where 90% of all knowledge comes from mats books and the like, but it's just the way I'd prefer it.
Stay night tells us she was ruthless and efficient enough to be seen as completely mechanical and emotionless to everyone. There you go, that's how he interactions would go.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying...
I am I just think it would get either boring or unnecessary to see Artoria be like "Greetings, I have just finished my afternoon slaughter of the opposition. I must rest for tomorrow's battle. Bye" and then see the other character cry about her being soulless
There isn't much I can say here other than I feel the opposite way to yours. I think your viewpoint is valid but in the end my preferred way of storytelling has always been to be shown things and come to my conclusions from there, rather than to read about it after the fact. It was necessary in stay night because Shirou can't time travel (and, logistically even if he could somehow, they weren't going to spend time creating extended flashback sequences when that wasn't the point of the narrative), but now that we have things like F/GO it's just annoying to see the narrative run in circles around Artoria. Not that I'm calling what stay night did bad by any means, like I said, this wasn't the point of the narrative then.
But what narrative is running circles around Artoria? All of the characters who are connected to her have their arcs resolved through interactions with someone else. Who's in this limbo you're seeing?
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but my argument is that they should have been resolved through her and not through someone else.
I think doing that runs the same risk of Zero; the novelized events are very discongruent with what was described in the Fate route, to the detriment of the storyline. I'd rather they didn't do that because it would probably just be fucked up.
Call me 想φαγω.
Spoiler:
I think I can understand the worry there. To be perfectly honest, if we were going to do this at all, I'd rather they not make any more storylines with the Matter of Britain characters, but given that we're already here, I figured they might as well have gone all the way. I like the Heroic Spirit stuff. I like seeing history, myth, and literature re-interpreted in new and often very strange ways. But the old characters are like a sort of sacred ground that you can't touch too much because their backstories were already exposited on in the original visual novels, so whenever we see them it has to be with some sort of caveat. This isn't real Herc, it's super edgelord mindbroken Herc. This isn't real Cu, this is Medb's idealized version of Cu. This isn't Artoria, it's just someone who looks like her. If it's going to be like that, I'd prefer we focus entirely on parts of human culture that weren't explored in the original, so that they can be fully developed in an unrestrained way, and leave these other characters to the world of the VN where I assume they're at their most satisfactory.
Last edited by Formless Creature; December 8th, 2024 at 12:24 PM.
I just want to see Uther and Ambrosius. And Pellinore. Show us the previous generation ffs.
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