I wouldn't be surprised to find that they intended to freeze her until the next War, honestly....Originally Posted by Guest Liner
I don't think anyone is arguing that Dark Sakura isn't crazy, but that doesn't make her Yandere.
Hello?
Chop off leg? Chop off leg?
Is there an echo in here? Here?
It's not a seperate personality, but it isn't natural, and by what we know about blackening, not about making another ego, but twisting the current one. Kotomine also kind of slipped up in that he noted that two entities were merging, so it's not exactly, "just sakura".
Moreover, the reason she didn't disagree is because she was running from what was happening, so it's half-truth, but as Ilya said the day before, she never wanted to kill anyone. Or didn't you notice her in tears after she killed Shinji on accident?
Not really. Unless we count the results of drug usage and biological (and magical) experimentation as factors. Then just barely so.
The sequence of events pretty much say this is an unnatural occurrence, so I'd have to disagree.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
She never actually did that, and she was clearly delirious at the time, as Altima said.
My god, a Yandere, not thinking clearly?
What a twist!
I mean, once you start arguing that yandere are stable and well-adjusted members of society, you should really stop and reassess your position. That Sakura was delirious is like, one of the worse defense against yandere-ism, like ever.
Last edited by ratstsrub; September 6th, 2012 at 08:15 PM.
Pretty sure Kotomine's point wasn't that she was murdering people, but that she liked it.
FGO Supports
Rats, I think you might need to lay down. You're repeating yourself.
But seriously, sure, that thought she had was pretty yandere. Which is kind of the point, to alert the reader something is wrong here, as if the screen visibly darkening and the various other parts of the story didn't tell you that already.
And I think you're reaching just a bit here bro. If the person only gets that way in very specific circumstances for a very specific and isolated outside reason, you say they show traces of the archetype, which I'll agree is true, but the character isn't a pure example of the archetype.
Even that is debunked a little bit early on when she is horrified at the illusion of her hands covered in blood, and the story shows the development as the "dreams" continue through AM's development and how the two entities merge.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
I dunno man. Asagami Fujino thought she didn't enjoy killing either but oh look, turns out she did.
This is Nasu we're talking about. You can be both horrified by and enjoy your gruesome actions at the same time.
If there wasn't evidence to the contrary earlier on in the route, and there wasn't an outside factor, I'd agree. But there is, at least two in fact. Moreover, she then would not feel shame at it, and cry tears over it if she thought it was something enjoyable.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
You might not wanna go there bro, because I'm the one who's gonna characterize the character by just one dimension.Rats, I think you might need to lay down. You're repeating yourself.
But seriously, sure, that thought she had was pretty yandere. Which is kind of the point, to alert the reader something is wrong here, as if the screen visibly darkening and the various other parts of the story didn't tell you that already.
And I think you're reaching just a bit here bro. If the person only gets that way in very specific circumstances for a very specific and isolated outside reason, you say they show traces of the archetype, which I'll agree is true, but the character isn't a pure example of the archetype
She's a yandere...and she's also other stuff. Which makes her more of a real character than other yandere, sure, but that doesn't make her yandere character not yandere.
She's not flat, she's a real fucking character damn it, and I'm not going to let you imply that she's nothing more than a caricature!
On a more serious note, the alert to the reader that something is wrong also applies to other yandere. As if like say dramatic line streak and various other parts of their story didn't tell you that already. So, once again, your defense is ridiculous and does not serve your point, just like your previous defense against Sakura being a yandere (that she wasn't thinking clearly).
Actually, it's even worse than that, because you wrote this:
Because how or why they became a yandere doesn't really matter, just that they did. So specific circumstance or specific reason or hell, even one of a kind absolutely unique circumstance or reason, matters not one tiny bit, so's long as it happens.If the person only gets that way in very specific circumstances for a very specific and isolated outside reason
Guess what? It happened.
Last edited by ratstsrub; September 6th, 2012 at 08:35 PM.
Of course she's horrified. People don't want to admit they like killing people.
FGO Supports
Shocking news:
People can hold contrary thoughts!
More at 11.
The problem is, that it's not really just a matter of psychosis, because then again, we could put any character under drug induced effects is yandere. As long as it is not an actual part of the character's personality, with no other factors (abuse induced insanity counts btw, but magical effects I would say would not count) but the character itself, then it doesn't really fit.
In that manner, we could say Shiki is a yandere in some cases with that logic. So, I would have to say, sorry, but I disagree.
For example, if you used this spell (http://therafimrpg.wikidot.com/morality-undone) on Rin, would she be a yandere if she showed lust towards Sakura while torturing her? I'd say that'd be a slippery slope to draw character traits from.
Never said they couldn't.
The problem with your theory here is that if she did like it, then the curse within here would not be caged as it was and could only go out if she slept. Zouken pointed out that it was her holding it back. If in her subconscious she honestly liked killing, it would not need to change her.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
Yes, yes you did.
Blatant if then statement here.Moreover, she then would not feel shame at it, and cry tears over it if she thought it was something enjoyable.
Yes. Your slippery slope argument, I reject, because there is no slippery slope. It's a straight vertical drop from not yandere to yandere.For example, if you used this spell (http://therafimrpg.wikidot.com/morality-undone) on Rin, would she be a yandere if she showed lust towards Sakura while torturing her? I'd say that'd be a slippery slope to draw character traits from.
Take Shirou, for instance, and let's say he gets hit by AM and then went crazy as a result (by presumption!) and then started to kill everything by reasoning that it'd protect Sakura...including everybody that Sakura interacts with, because *insert standard yandere reasoning*.
For example, you would say that he's not a yandere then, but that's patently ridiculous. Of course he would be, if such a thing were to happen.
As for Shiki being a yandere in some cases...I don't recall any. Unless you mean theoretical ones, then of course yes.
The problem with your theory here is that, wait a second, let me dig it out. Ah, yes:The problem with your theory here is that if she did like it, then the curse within here would not be caged as it was and could only go out if she slept.
Shocking news:
People can hold contrary thoughts!
More at 11.
Last edited by ratstsrub; September 6th, 2012 at 08:58 PM.
That was me saying that she didn't enjoy it, because the evidence here:
http://fsn.seorinwastaken.com/h/HF14-06-78.jpg
shows things differently.
It was the progression of the scene that makes me disagree with you, since she seems more shamed by it than anything and wanting to run away from it.
Moreover, she found it strange that she was "starting" (note the quotation marks) to like the dreams, meaning it's unnatural. but if you want to believe it was just her hiding her true self than you may. I just disagree.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
Never stopped Kotomine from being against his nature and still reveling in it. You can know something is wrong but still enjoy it.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
It's like people can't regret binge drinking or eating that last piece if they enjoyed it at the time.
Araya, what do you seek?
「アラヤ、何を求める」
------True wisdom.「――――真の叡智を」
Araya, where do you seek it?「アラヤ、何処に求める」
Only within myself.「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
Araya, what is your favorite color?「アラヤ、好きな色は？」
Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ！」
Breaking news. The logical mind overrides impulses. News at eleven.
FGO Supports
its a bit debatable if one can be held accountable for actions taken while drunk, especially if, considering the metaphor, she wouldn't be responsible for getting drunk in the first place.
Very true, but as long as it was because of an outside factor, it is dubious to assume the same is the case for Sakura. Kotomine came to the realization of his nature, Sakura was possessed. There is a difference.
Then pretty much every possessed person who claims to do things in the name of love or for love is yandere, but really, would you not just call them possessed?
Take Shirou, for instance, and let's say he gets hit by AM and then went crazy as a result (by presumption!) and then started to kill everything by reasoning that it'd protect Sakura...including everybody that Sakura interacts with, because *insert standard yandere reasoning*.
For example, you would say that he's not a yandere then, but that's patently ridiculous. Of course he would be, if such a thing were to happen.
Yandere is used as as a character undergoing psychosis as a result of a relationship or affection, therefore, it cannot be because of an outside factor, such as possession or magic, because then they would just be possessed. Your reasoning is flawed. You are overgeneralizing an already general term.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
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