Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Feren]

Because humanity (Alaya) was already wiped out by Notes. Godo is the last actual human. It (Alaya) might have been before Type-Jupiter nuked the Western Continent killing every human other than Godo though. But it's doubtful that Alaya can even sustain itself with such a low amount of people (the only people we definitively know were actual humans were his family).

yes but I thought that it would work because there are still liners that are humans that can survive in the enviroment full of grain,their soul is still the same of normal humans.

Edit:Thanks counter guardian,I think your answer is right ^^

[Erlkonig]

Liners are not humans though.

They are just A-Rays with no powers whatsoever.

So in this case it would be a new part of the Counterforce.

[meevanhelot]

Er, Liners evolved from humans. They technically belong to the designation A-Rays because they succeed the 'old' humanity (the ones that died), but they aren't artificial beings like the actual A-Rays, they're humans that can survive in the Land of Steel.

It even says they didn't actually change shape whatsoever, they just gained the ability to survive. So yeah, Liners are humans.

The Knights on the other hand, they're a bit more iffy.

[Erlkonig]

Er, Liners evolved from humans. They technically belong to the designation A-Rays because they succeed humanity, but they aren't artificial beings like the actual A-Rays, they're humans that can survive in the Land of Steel.

It even says they didn't actually change shape whatsoever, they just gained the ability to survive.

So are they or are they not humans?

I'd rather go with modified/evolved humans. The A-Rays are artificially engineered beings, so they aren't humans.

[meevanhelot]

人間種 [liner] ningenshu
Human Species
Human race on the Land of Steel. Evolved form of the old human beings who adapted to this world without changing their shape. They technically belong to the A-rays as well.
They were able to adapt and live on today's environment, but they still don't carry any ability more than a normal human being.
They are building a country in order to reconstruct their old civilization. Cease-fire with the Hundred A-rays.

I'll let you decide for yourself, but it seems to me that it's saying they're still just humans, even though they evolved the ability to survive.

The Ether Liners definitely fall outside normal humanity though.

[food]

Primates -> A-rays

|

->Humanity -> Humans (Last Seed)

|

->Humans (Liners) -> regular Liners

|

-> Knights (Ether Liners)

Here's the breakdown of Primates for ya.

[meevanhelot]

A-Rays aren't just made from primates though. They're (as a whole) made from multiple different creatures.

[food]

They are various creature fused with humans. They are primates. Think of them like cat-girls, dog-girls and stuff like that.

亜麗百種［a-ray］
星の資源を使いきった人類が生み出した次世代の霊長類。

"The next-generation Primates given birth by humans who have exhausted all the resources of the planet."

[meevanhelot]

That's not just primates though, which is what I thought you were saying.

So, is the one on the left supposed to be different from the one on the right then? Because Last Seeds are exactly the same as us. It's more like "Humanity = Last Seed".

[terraablaze]

That's not just primates though, which is what I thought you were saying.

So, is the one on the left supposed to be different from the one on the right then? Because Last Seeds are exactly the same as us. It's more like "Humanity = Last Seed".

Except Alaya concerns itself with Primates hence Primate Murder.

[food]

That's not just primates though, which is what I thought you were saying.

So, is the one on the left supposed to be different from the one on the right then? Because Last Seeds are exactly the same as us. It's more like "Humanity = Last Seed".

The Primates here refers to the classification. Although A-rays have other genes mixed into them, they are Primates.
Last Seed IS us.


I am too lazy to make a good looking chart, but the gist is that:

Primates = A-rays + Humanity

Humanity = Liners + Last Seed

Liners = Knights + regular Liners

[meevanhelot]

Primate Murder is Gaia's beast. It has nothing to do with Alaya, which is simply humanity's collective will to survive (except for the fact that Alaya opposes it if it tries to kill humanity of course, it can kill monkeys all it wants).

@food: Ah gotcha. I agree with that.

[Erlkonig]

So Knights are the epitome of human evolution?

Darwin was right after all.

Original Humans (Akasha h4x) -> Age of Gods Humans (Super OP) -> Medieval Ages Humans (OP) -> Modern Humans/Last-Seeds (Weak) -> Liners (Like Modern Humans, may have some mages) -> Ether Liners (FUCKING OP)

[Cruor]

But what the guy was wondering was if Alaya existed despite it no longer being humanity.

[terraablaze]

food just called Liners Humanity so it seems that is a non-issue.

[Cruor]

Hurp Durp

A Magus makes a Dead Apostle potion and becomes one; they're then no longer considered a human but a Dead Apostle. Altering yourself so you are part human and part fish/giraffe/whatever is no different.

[food]

A-rays are the "human-fish fusion" you mentioned, which is why they are Primates, not humans.

Liners are just "evolved humans", and Last Seeds are "regular humans like us" (dying breed on the Land of Steel).

[Cruor]

The question is are the evolved (or rather genetically modified into a different species) 'humans' connected to Alaya (the question was if Alaya still existed to send out CG's and therefore needs actual humans) despite no longer being 'human'.

Editwhoknows: Actually, I'm starting to have second thoughts. Roa had a soul which could be dotstabbed. But yeah, apparently vampires can't become eirei no matter how famous unless your name is Vlad Tepes (and that's due to weird legends). Making me confus

[terraablaze]

I would assume they are since I thought the creation of Alaya was part of the reason humans could become independent of Gaia, but we will never know for sure until Nasu plays a "Reborn the Story" magic card and pulls it out of his development graveyard.

[food]

Actually I was wrong. I just went to Jonnobi, and besides what arai translated, they have this little bit.

正確には彼らも亜麗に含まれる

"To be precise, they (Liners) are also included in the A-rays".

So the tree is more like:

Primates = Last Seed + A-rays

A-rays = Liners + Animal-human hybrids

Liners = regular Liners + Knights

I guess "亜麗百種" ("The A-ray Hundred Species", full name of A-rays) is an umbrella term that encompasses all species that contains human DNA.