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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #149901
    Quote Originally Posted by aAlouda View Post
    Do we have any actual examples of what Formalcraft can actually acomplish?

    I get the concept behind it, being magecraft fueled by mana outside the body and activated through rituals and offerings, but do we have any concrete example of what it can actually do?
    I think the ritual summon Iskandar accomplished by Waver could be an example for that kind of magecrafts. Because it for weak users so we dont get many chances to see and cost much time.

  2. #149902
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    Nah, what Waver did was a standard servant summoning, he just used chicken blood to draw the circle, the same way Ryuunosuke used Human blood or Tohsaka used melted gems, the actual summoning spell is still mostly cast by the Greater Grail with it's own supply of mana.

    And yeah I get what you mean, I just think it's weird that I can't find any single example of it actually being used, like you'd imagine someone like waver would use it all the time.

  3. #149903
    Quote Originally Posted by aAlouda View Post
    Nah, what Waver did was a standard servant summoning, he just used chicken blood to draw the circle, the same way Ryuunosuke used Human blood or Tohsaka used melted gems, the actual summoning spell is still mostly cast by the Greater Grail with it's own supply of mana.

    And yeah I get what you mean, I just think it's weird that I can't find any single example of it actually being used, like you'd imagine someone like waver would use it all the time.
    The idea of Formal Crafts is based on already made concept so standard servant summoning still count, mana outside in environment is secondary source same as from Greater Grail. The main thing also is it cost much time for user, if I remember right, Waver and Ryunosuke need a lot time, more than Rin.

    Waver always has his "beloved" sister casted greater spell for him in most of situations so Formal Craft is unnecessary or just let Gray go on head to head battle so he just used single action spells.

  4. #149904
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors ballinamon's Avatar
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    A question: In the Normal End in Heaven's Feel where Shirou died it is said that Rin follow with her life, needed to continue with the Tohsaka lineage so she have a child that was taugh by Sakura so she married with some mage. Is this a constant in other routes as apparently aside of HF True End Shirou still goes to being Archer or something similar but not quite the same and Rin still need to continue the Tohsaka lineage or leave it to die for good.

  5. #149905
    Quote Originally Posted by ballinamon View Post
    A question: In the Normal End in Heaven's Feel where Shirou died it is said that Rin follow with her life, needed to continue with the Tohsaka lineage so she have a child that was taugh by Sakura so she married with some mage. Is this a constant in other routes as apparently aside of HF True End Shirou still goes to being Archer or something similar but not quite the same and Rin still need to continue the Tohsaka lineage or leave it to die for good.
    Shirou never became Archer in any of the routes.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  6. #149906
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Because Archer is a failed version of Shirou.

    Gundam-a-thon Status: 0079 Zeta ZZ Char's Counterattck War In the Pocket F91 Stardust Memories Victory G Gundam Wing Endless Waltz 8th MS After War X Turn A SEED 00 Unicorn AGE Reconguista The Orgin Thunderbolt IBO

    DONE!!!!!! 4 years, 1 week.

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  7. #149907
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herod View Post
    Shirou never became Archer in any of the routes.
    Personal headcanon - Demiya is Shirou from the superhero ending.

  8. #149908
    リビングデッド Living Dead
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    That’s a very popular theory. Emiya Alter’s S3 is actually named “Derisive Heart of Steel” in JP, which invites “Mind of Steel” comparisons

  9. #149909
    whydunit Reign's Avatar
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    Is Tamamo's mirror supposed to be the imperial treasure one? Because of the Amaterasu connection?

  10. #149910
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Yeah, according to Extra.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keywords
    01 - The Eightfold Blessing of Amaterasu
    A mirror wielded by Tamamo-no-Mae. It is one of the sacred treasures brought down from the Heavens by the god Takehinateru-no-Mikoto and was oringally kept in the great shrine in the Izumo Province. According to passages in the Chronicles of Japan, the mirror was later moved to a site in the Kawachi district as the behest of the Imperial Court.

    The mirror is also known as Yata-no-Kagami and is frequently used in rites honoring the sun goddess Amaterasu.

  11. #149911
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    I rather enjoy the parallels to other games but don't know much about Melty Blood. Other than Sion, what are some of the parallels between FGO and Melty Blood? And is Captain one of them?

    Or maybe a better question is that what things might we expect to be paralleled with Melty Blood? I remember some people on another thread here mentioning a world egg which sounds interesting.

  12. #149912
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    We're talking specifically about Dust of Osiris harnessing the dream nature of Tatari provided by WLen, and the power of math, to make her impossible plan a reality through simple juxtaposition. From the perspective of a dreamer, how can you know what reality is?

    The parallel in that case would be that both Melty and FGO are set in Magical Christmas Land that doesn't exist. They create these elaborate fake worlds based on the real one, in an unreachable and secure bubble, and hope to have them replace reality. The Lostbelt is the egg, when it hatches, the bird flies to god, the god's name is Abraxas. So long as the base of the world is solid, the rest of the universe will have to adjust (even if cosmology would be wildly different, like in case of Olympus).

    And the end of the ritual, equally in case of Dust of Osiris, Goetia, and Alien God, it will be as if nothing had happened in the first place.
    - In Misaki, people wake from a really wild dream, or the entire world is now a field of emerald tablets containing a recording of humanity that has always been there.
    - In FGO Part 1, the old world will be replaced by Made in Heaven as Goetia intended, or Guda returns to Chaldea which has undergone an accident, and only a bunch of inconsistencies on Chaldeas and Da Vinci/Mashu's accounts will be able to prove what they just spent a year doing. Well, that and the planet having moved a year ahead astrologically.
    - In FGO Part 2, the Alien God will descend on one of the Lostbelts that will have always been the only reality that exists, or Guda will only have the sabotage as proof... probably, unless they pull 'part 2 Chaldea is also a lostbelt'.
    Last edited by Ratman; April 21st, 2021 at 07:40 PM.

  13. #149913
    Wings of the Sunlit Sky Hermitfold's Avatar
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    What was the issue with the dates in Rakkyo again?

  14. #149914
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    We're talking specifically about Dust of Osiris harnessing the dream nature of Tatari provided by WLen, and the power of math, to make her impossible plan a reality through simple juxtaposition. From the perspective of a dreamer, how can you know what reality is?

    The parallel in that case would be that both Melty and FGO are set in Magical Christmas Land that doesn't exist. They create these elaborate fake worlds based on the real one, in an unreachable and secure bubble, and hope to have them replace reality. The Lostbelt is the egg, when it hatches, the bird flies to god, the god's name is Abraxas. So long as the base of the world is solid, the rest of the universe will have to adjust (even if cosmology would be wildly different, like in case of Olympus).

    And the end of the ritual, equally in case of Dust of Osiris, Goetia, and Alien God, it will be as if nothing had happened in the first place.
    - In Misaki, people wake from a really wild dream, or the entire world is now a field of emerald tablets containing a recording of humanity that has always been there.
    - In FGO Part 1, the old world will be replaced by Made in Heaven as Goetia intended, or Guda returns to Chaldea which has undergone an accident, and only a bunch of inconsistencies on Chaldeas and Da Vinci/Mashu's accounts will be able to prove what they just spent a year doing. Well, that and the planet having moved a year ahead astrologically.
    - In FGO Part 2, the Alien God will descend on one of the Lostbelts that will have always been the only reality that exists, or Guda will only have the sabotage as proof... probably, unless they pull 'part 2 Chaldea is also a lostbelt'.
    Interesting...

    Your description of the world egg sounds similar to Mara and Kiara's plans, trying to outside of reality and then substitute the artificial reality they created with the real one. Though I suppose with Mara it was more an overlay than complete rewrite.

    Once again I cross paths with the name Abraxas. Is he an actual figure in Melty Blood or something merely hinted at? I've tried looking into him a bit, things get complicated pretty fast. I suppose Abraxas is more of a title than an identity and just having that name wouldn't really say much about them at the end of the day. Still, it'd be good to know if others think that path is worth pursuing or if he might be part of the Foreign God.

    Might we get a Dust of Osiris figure then given we have Shion and something attacking us from the future? Her purpose in the story, beyond fanservice, seems rather confusing.

  15. #149915
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six madarra's Avatar
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    You mean her purpose isnt just the Black Barrel?

  16. #149916
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Comun's Avatar
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    No, I definitely agree with Ratman that Logos React is far more relevant than Black Barrel here. And maybe all parallels with Olga as woman on a huge downward spiral of personality and social interactions due to a family legacy that works on very similar goals and methods. The stated goals on the Animusphere side might be just front, but Olga was clearly out of the loop in her debut, so it still counts.

  17. #149917
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Your description of the world egg sounds similar to Mara and Kiara's plans, trying to outside of reality and then substitute the artificial reality they created with the real one. Though I suppose with Mara it was more an overlay than complete rewrite.
    For Mara, that would be exactly right, but she doesn't need to rely on a gnostic idea when she's an Indian character. For Kiara I'm not so sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Once again I cross paths with the name Abraxas. Is he an actual figure in Melty Blood or something merely hinted at? I've tried looking into him a bit, things get complicated pretty fast. I suppose Abraxas is more of a title than an identity and just having that name wouldn't really say much about them at the end of the day. Still, it'd be good to know if others think that path is worth pursuing or if he might be part of the Foreign God.
    No, I am just doing an Utena meme which is not an accident, because Utena for all its boons has a lot of dumb and frankly meaningless hermetic shit in it. 'Is there a true demiurge in the Nasuverse past the fake gods' is a pretty interesting topic though, but it requires you to treat DDD as a part of Nasu's idea space.

  18. #149918
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Utena for all its boons has a lot of dumb and frankly meaningless hermetic shit in it
    how dare you
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  19. #149919
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Look, I love overanalyzing that stuff just as much as the next guy. It's really what gives the show its sense of infinite depth. But the show would be no worse without it, just make J.A.Seazer write songs about girl power or something. Meanwhile, you can't do it with the Terayama references.

    Anyway, this is really a problem Nasu runs into due to actually understanding real world magic too well. For all the gesturing and chanting, most interesting thaumaturgical experiments boil down to
    - muh infinite wisdom within the akashic chronicles equals UNLIMITED POWER
    - muh one touch knockout kung fu that is definitely real as is my ability to heal cancer with a touch it's not my fault you don't belieb hard enough
    - muh cosmic egg that will turn the world upside down and flip existence to make me the opposite of a schizo loser that reads books about magic unironically
    - muh summoning a succubuss into my bedroom because I'm an incel that reads books about magic unironically
    - muh alchemical magnum opus of merging opposites to create a holy grail/philosopher's stone/a hermaphroditic materialization of soul that embodies the malleability and profoundness of existence in all of its primal form while profaning spirit and proving that metaphysics are just physics and there is really nothing such as an immortal soul so let's go sacrifice some kids to Moloch because it doesn't matter anyway

  20. #149920
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    No, I am just doing an Utena meme which is not an accident, because Utena for all its boons has a lot of dumb and frankly meaningless hermetic shit in it. 'Is there a true demiurge in the Nasuverse past the fake gods' is a pretty interesting topic though, but it requires you to treat DDD as a part of Nasu's idea space.
    I really should get back to Utena someday. The first three episodes seemed too repetitive but I assume it changes fast at some point.

    My main theory regarding the 'true' demiurge, if there is one, is that it's probably the Mother goddess whom BB gets authority from in CCC. It seems like Tiamat might have been retconned into the spot at this point. I also suspect that they might be the Beast of Ayala, but that's still a work in progress. I'd say Requiem would be the most likely to give some details on a true Demiurge if any.

    Anyway, is this the place to chuck crackpot theories or do you prefer to keep them off the site?

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