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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #148741
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    But it's not about just survival, it's about growth, and growth is survival to Alaya.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
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    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  2. #148742
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    Yeah the Sixth was pretty cool, wasn't it.
    if only someone had told Zepia about timeline pruning! would have been egg on his face for sure
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  3. #148743
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Why can't Extella get its own collab if it's so tough, huh?

  4. #148744
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
    The problem is that doing that dooms them to lose. And when they lose, everyone dies.

    Humanity being doomed to destroy itself is fine as a trope and all, but it kind of falls a bit flat for me when the supernatural force whose sole purpose is ensuring humanity survives is burning away every single branch that guarantees humanity's perpetual survival.
    Is perpetual survival worth it if it's not a 100% run
    The objective feels like it clearly isn't just keeping humans alive, but instead ensuring they realize their potential and conquer the stars and beyond, maybe, IDK

  5. #148745
    "The universe will not expend energy to create an ending where it already knows what will happen. This is because the universe continues to expand towards a “future” that no one has seen before, that not even a life form of a higher order could predict."

    Ah, so this "Golden end" is the future that can't be predicted Zepia hoped for?
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  6. #148746
    DIĒS VENIET ITERVM Walnut Sparks's Avatar
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    Precisely how much of this is in the source material and how much is just fan inferences?
    Day will come again.

  7. #148747
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    So I can safely assume that pruned world term has a lot flaw in logic, and if TM want to dive deeper in this topic, maybe some retcon'd happened. ATM, it's another reason for FGO and crazy mutilverse exist.
    My thought is why the heck does Alaya allowed to decide which world got the short end of the stick, did Gaia have no say in this matter. And also, if human collective consciousness capable of this much, why gods that way more powerful than us don't have same system as Alaya that prune any world in which they die out, strangely convinent for us human, huh.
    In my imagination, pick a frozen wasteland like lostbelt 1/2, in which, there are small species that is smart enough to considered sentient and currently flourish in this world, and dozen of them make a collective consciousness named Bob. How'd Alaya deal with this then? Would it be like "Sorry Bob, thing aint so hot for me so I guess I'm going to dip out and nuke this world out of existence, no hard feeling, bro " or like "Ok Bob, me and Gaia is going out, you are in charge now, use the frozen corpses as food for your specie, don't answer phone call from strange alien gods, and remember to quantum time lock one in while, mkay". LOL
    Last edited by Wuff_Wuff; September 29th, 2020 at 08:07 AM.

  8. #148748
    IIRC Alaya is entirely unique to humanity. It's one of the reasons Gaia is so freaked out by us.
    Last edited by Holiday; September 29th, 2020 at 08:14 AM.

  9. #148749
    リビングデッド Living Dead
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    The idea of the subconscious of mankind handling a multiverse was flawed from the start, really why should the subconscious of an irrelevant species on a irrelevant planet handle a multiverse.

    But it seems like Nasu has been trying to say that human are super special for a while.

  10. #148750
    love warrior <3 world-0 the god of world-0's Avatar
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    Humans are special. We don't exactly know why, but they are.
    I remember being mentioned somewhere that Goetia burned human order specifically because it produced much more energy than burning the actual entire planet.


    here is a list of my servant sheets(new and improved format for my servant sheets)

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  11. #148751
    Quote Originally Posted by KT daily messages
    The Scenario Director's motto:
    'Humanity is almighty.'
    .

  12. #148752
    We Want to Protect that Head OverMaster's Avatar
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    Plot twist, what truly is almighty for the multiverse purposes is the humanity beyond the Fourth Wall, which in a way is true.

    Reaching and breaching the Root only means you'll get a full view of Type-Moon's offices where Takeuchi is drawing another Saberface.

  13. #148753
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    I'm reminded of Moorcock's stories, particularly the Elric ones, in which an excess of Law was just as bad for the world as an excess of Chaos.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Buddhism, nor do I know how much of its philosophical-ideological underpinnings can be found in Nasu's works, but a stray thought I had was that maybe utopias being pruned works as a metaphor for how reincarnating as a deva is ultimately an obstacle because you lead such a happy life you lose sight of how not just happiness, but existence itself is an illusion which imprisons you.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  14. #148754
    My talks with wiafuhunter and some others gave me the general vibe that nasu doesnt understand buddhism either.

    Also if only one ending is allowed isnt that just railroading humanity which is in of itself a form of stagnation

  15. #148755
    屍食鬼 Ghoul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    My talks with wiafuhunter and some others gave me the general vibe that nasu doesnt understand buddhism either.

    Also if only one ending is allowed isnt that just railroading humanity which is in of itself a form of stagnation
    I think Nasu understands Buddhism well enough. But mind you, I’m far from being an expert on it.

    About your second point... that wouldn’t necessarily be the case if that one ending is ultimate liberation and boundlessness. If that happened, it would unquestionably exceed all other possibilities and make stagnation impossible.

  16. #148756
    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    My talks with wiafuhunter and some others gave me the general vibe that nasu doesnt understand buddhism either.
    When has mizu said anything like that?

    Also if only one ending is allowed isnt that just railroading humanity which is in of itself a form of stagnation
    Not really, no.
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  17. #148757
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    rebirth in the deva realm is finite. you're still inside the desire realm. hence why Mara, the demon-lord of the sixth heaven (dairokuten, the highest point of the desire realm) is in there. just chilling. maitreya is also there - in the tusita heaven (no. 4? iirc) - hanging around till he can be reborn in the human realm. it is a pleasant existence, which is a difficulty (but by no means an insurmountable obstacle) as far as buddhist salvation goes, but it does not fit with the notion of 'completeness' nasu seems to be getting at when he describes the criteria for the pruning phenomenon.

    as i have said elsewhere, the 'pruning' idea is far closer to a hegelian/kojevian eschatological view of world-history. albeit with the ethical valence flipped. for hegel/kojeve the 'end of history' was - to simplify greatly - a 'good' thing. for hegel less ambiguously so. he had all these ideas borne out of late medieval mysticism [boehme mainly] about humanity being god's self-knowledge perfecting itself through time. kojeve had a kind of more explicitly atheistic variant of this idea in which - to grossly oversimplify - human being = time = history, and therefore the 'end of history' means the 'end of humanity' in the sense that what persists will not be 'human' in any meaningful sense, but rather a kind of 'animal', which is fed and watered and kept content, but has nothing really to do. there is no more 'work' to be done in a world-historical sense.

    to consider this outcome undesirable is not a novel position. leo strauss explicitly compared it (in the strauss-kojeve correspondence which is in the expanded edition of strauss' On Tyranny) to the description of the 'last man' in Nietzsche's zarathustra. that nasu presents the 'completion' of world-history, either in extinction or 'perfection', as a 'bad' thing, or at minimum undesirable, is indicative of a kind of basic irrationalism - an elevation of the irrational in man, the 'Will' - along the same lines as nietzsche's. you could compare it also to dostoevsky's Underground Man re: the discourse on the Crystal Palace, where he talks about how even if you made humanity perfectly happy and content, they'd still arbitrarily choose to fuck things up out of sheer caprice.
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  18. #148758
    Lost in Paradise RoydGolden's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if Nasu sees timeline-pruning as a 'bad' thing, or even undesirable per-se. It's just that, an ending, and all stories will arguably come to an end some day. The problem isn't humanity reaching "completion" and being pruned (iirc Justeaze in Apocrypha outright said Amakusa's plan of giving Third Magic to everyone- which would result in stagnation- is something humanity would come up with on their own someday) it's that process being shortcircuited so the ending happens without any of the growth that made it meaningful in the first place. In which case it'd be like skipping to the end of a book without reading all the character-development in between.

  19. #148759
    リビングデッド Living Dead
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    What is FATE system?

  20. #148760
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    It's Chaldea's Servant summoning system. It was invented by Marisbilly himself by reverse engineering what he saw in the Fuyuki Holy Grail War, improving it and making it more stable.

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