Originally Posted by Cylascream
I think the "holy relic" alluded to here is supposed to be the sheath.
I think the "holy relic" alluded to here is supposed to be the sheath.
Okay I'm gonna rephrase my earlier question.
Is merlin the one who decides ownership of Avalon or saber?
Is there anywhere that says whether dead apostle-ization is something Crimson Moon "gave" to humanity or if it's a perk inherent to humanity? Can a magus turning himself into a dead apostle be thought of as using "CM-foundation magecraft"? I always get confused whenever I think about CM's place in regards to everything else. I used to think it was inherent but with Salem ghouls turning into fish monsters I guess it's the same thing happening but with a different type of monster?
Gilgamesh doesn't know what Dead Apostles are, so they presumably didn't exist in 3000BC Mesopotamia. Crimson Moon answered Gaia's call around 2000BC, so it's possible Dead Apostles started popping up a few hundred years after Gil and that suspiciously lines up with Crimson Moon.
Dead apostles are an unintended consequence insofar as the vampiric impulse of the first True Ancestors was an unforeseen flaw. Generally speaking, a dead apostle is a creature with an imperfect immortality that requires material from other beings to reconstruct their bodies, so the ones who became dead apostles as a result of their magic are probably qualified according to that criterion. The bloodsucking impulse too, but there was a line of thought that questioned whether the magi-turned-DA were specifically compelled to drink blood rather than simply take in genetic material by whatever method (and another on whether drinking blood specifically was for dead apostles not a compulsion [as the psychological need of the TA] but simply another way to take in genetic material along with using animals or having an all-inclusive buffet like Nrvnqsr), so put an asterisk to that.
The ghetto math tentatively places Crimson Moon's descent at 3000BC (concurrent with ORT's arrival in response to the same SOS call) and certainly no later than 2000BC (the age of the Elder Title DAA), any assumptions about whether the TA got thirsty immediately after they were born or whether the Elder Titles are representative of the age of the oldest emerging Ancestors (the original 27) or simply of the Ancestors that are still alive (most probable, as one of the oldest three was magic-turned) notwithstanding. My guess at why Gil doesn't know what a dead apostle is in SF is either the nature of the hybrid world or the history denial spiel, rather than the timeline lining up.
Last edited by Leftovers; November 8th, 2020 at 08:01 PM.
I guess the "4000 years back" thing was counted from Arc's birth and not 199X then? Or I'm completely fucking up every number in my pea-sized brain then
I counted both from the present. 199x - 5000 because of Overcount and 199x - 4000 because the dictionaries talked about DAA in the context of Tsukihime's events.
I wish Gil knowing about TA in Battle Moon Wars was canon.
Speaking of Dead Apostles, I was re-watching Fate/Zero and I got to the flashback episodes with Natalia on the plane overrun with Ghouls and Natalia mentions she managed to get to the cockpit without being bit, and that had me thinking since she's a Mixed-Blood... do we have a definitive statement as to whether that affects being turned, I dunno like say in "I, Legend" where humans have different tolerance levels to the zombie virus.
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I thought Gil or Enkidu was aware of similar bloodsucking species, but not DAs? I think this was mentioned when Richard and Enkidu met?
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Also, quick clarification, but TAs are all descendants/offshoots of Crimson Moon and not just elementals created by the planet like Hinako?
Yeah, they are extremely similar to elementals like Hinako, but by definition TA are descendants of Crimson Moon.
Is the entire Moon Cell in the Imaginary Numbers Sea or just the far side? Or neither and I'm completely misinformed?
The Moon Cell is on the moon, and the digital world is inside of it.
Spoiler:
Well yes but I thought Imaginary Numbers were involved somewhere
The Far Side's made of imaginary numbers, which is at the root of a lot of what happens in CCC and related things.If the Moon Cell Core is a cell where the light of heavenly fire is imprisoned, this is the Garden of the Fallen, built from imaginary numbers.
Though we call it an arena, that place is still the far side of the moon…a “world that is not,” constructed from imaginary numbers.
What the heck are imaginary numbers?
Spoiler:
Sakura's "it exists but not really" magecraft.
In GO the Shadow Border and Nemo's Nautilus sail through a world made of them.
The square roots of negative numbers
Ugh, forget I even asked.
Spoiler:
Imagine Numbers stuff is basically space pockets, which include a whole inner world to the Earth.
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