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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #150021
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    K, but what about Diarmuid's lances then? I don't recall him saying their names every time he used their abilities (though I've only seen the anime), and given how he had to break one to lift the curse rather than just turn it off, feels like it's just an aspect of the weapon that anyone would be able to use if they could wield it.
    This is explained in Zero Vol 1.
    You can split NP activations into 2 categories.
    Exposing one's Noble Phantasm can have two different kinds of effects.

    One type is the demonstration of the large power of one's deadliest move as they announce its true name. Take Saber's ultimate secret move. She has "Excalibur • the Sword of Promised Victory" currently protected behind a bounded field of invisibility, but if she throws away the camouflage and shouts its true name, her sacred sword would shoot a stream of light that can mow down a thousand soldiers. As it truly is an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm that can turn the ground into scorched earth, it cannot be used just like that but as a last step.

    Along with that, there can also be how the weapon already carries the nature of a Noble Phantasm. In Saber's case, her "Invisible Air • Barrier of the Wind King" is an example. That alone doesn't have the capacity to annihilate the enemy; it is more a Noble Phantasm suitable in battle as a "sharp tool". It isn't particularly used for strength, but to put it differently it is easier to use, and a trump card that can bring victory if used well.

    And so, Lancer's red spear is—

    Probably, the latter. So said Saber's intuition. Lancer will keep exchanging continuous blows with Saber. She doesn't suspect the next strike to be decisive for the fight.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Rather than inconsistent, think of it as working on a case-by-case basis.
    Herakles didn't need to yell "GOD HAAAAAAAAAAAAND" to become invulnerable, after all.
    Mostly case-by-case but there are inconsistencies. The most egregious is that UBW anime tweet where Nasu said you need to call out Rule Breaker to activate it and they only didn't do that in the anime because it'd ruin the flow of action.
    Yet, whenever Rule Breaker is used in the VN the True Name is never called out.
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  2. #150022
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Rather than inconsistent, think of it as working on a case-by-case basis.
    Herakles didn't need to yell "GOD HAAAAAAAAAAAAND" to become invulnerable, after all.

    Maybe that's what his untranslated shouts are? Maybe GOD HAND is all that he's saying throughout all of Fate?

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  3. #150023
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    This is explained in Zero Vol 1.
    You can split NP activations into 2 categories.


    - - - Updated - - -



    Mostly case-by-case but there are inconsistencies. The most egregious is that UBW anime tweet where Nasu said you need to call out Rule Breaker to activate it and they only didn't do that in the anime because it'd ruin the flow of action.
    Yet, whenever Rule Breaker is used in the VN the True Name is never called out.
    Cheers, I gathered it was the case but it's good to know. It still begs the question of if Lancelot could use it if he picked it up, or if anyone else could for that matter. I don't imagine the latter would be true, but then what exactly would would it do if someone else picked it up?

  4. #150024
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    That’s Nanako not the spear.
    Ah, thanks. I'm not well versed on the Tsukihime side of things, I am a pleb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Otherwise you've got ID-tagged servants carrying ID-tagged Noble Phantasms fighting proxy Grail Wars for proxy masters. When everything is under total control, Holy Grail War becomes boring as hell.
    "Okay Lancelot. S.O.P. Procure-on-site. Enemy have Five-Five-Sixers and Pineapples, but they're all ID-tagged, so you'll have to find weapons that haven't been registered yet..."

    "ARRRRRRTHUUUUUUUUUUR!"

    "Lancelot? Lancelot?! LANCELOOOOOOOOT?!"

    *And now for something completely different*


    I'm working my way through Scandinavia in GO EN, and they say Skadi isn't a divine spirit or a god who has returned to nature, but just a straight up god. I get what they mean by returned to nature, seems to be a common sorta theme for personification in Japanese media, but I thought Divine spirits were just straight up gods, so what's the difference between Skadi and the likes of say Mars who occasionally shoots a space laser right at Altera?
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  5. #150025
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Comun's Avatar
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    For most mythologies, gods were gods until Altera showed and destroyed their physical bodies, reducing them to Divine Spirits. Norse is an exception, where they managed to dodge Sefar and only lost their physical bodies on Ragnarok in 1000BC. LB2's divergence point is that their Ragnarok had a survivor, Skadi, who preserved her divine body until 2018.

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    LB2 divergence also has Surtr go above and beyond the Scandinavian texture

    Also did Skadi really preserve her Divine Body if Odin ejected her into Scathach

  7. #150027
    I don't know if it's an appropriate question for here, but ...

    When did the joke start that Shirou is a harem protagonist capable of attracting countless girls unconsciously?

    I know the joke originally came from Hollow Ataraxia, but it seems to intensify over time and since even Case files have that joke, it seems the writers have made it canonical that wherever he is, shenanigans of the harem will happen.

    So when exactly do you think it happened?
    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    Dont think Gil yelling at you to become a uberman will get you a thousand blades unknown to life nor death.
    Quote Originally Posted by NMR-3 View Post
    "Never go to a therapist, you might lose your superpowers." - Nasu, maybe

  8. #150028
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    conceivably the publication of Fate/Stay Night (2004), a popular visual novel back in the day (in which you can see nasu's first prototype of shirou taking shape), might have had something to do with it
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  9. #150029
    In the original novel that kind of thing did not happen, of course, from time to time Fujimura made a joke because Shirou lived with many beautiful women, but only advances and romantic things happened with the heroine of the route, that kind of thing did not begin to happen until Hollow Ataraxia and even then not to the same extent as the current ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    Dont think Gil yelling at you to become a uberman will get you a thousand blades unknown to life nor death.
    Quote Originally Posted by NMR-3 View Post
    "Never go to a therapist, you might lose your superpowers." - Nasu, maybe

  10. #150030
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Well seeing as how there were three girls whose attention shirou attracted without conscious effort in the VN itself, you can argue it happened earlier.

    (that’s rin, Sakura, and Ilya, if you are keeping count)
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  11. #150031
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    I mean, the Unwanted Harem trope does exist...Also, long time no see Toby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
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  12. #150032
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    For most mythologies, gods were gods until Altera showed and destroyed their physical bodies, reducing them to Divine Spirits. Norse is an exception, where they managed to dodge Sefar and only lost their physical bodies on Ragnarok in 1000BC. LB2's divergence point is that their Ragnarok had a survivor, Skadi, who preserved her divine body until 2018.
    Reminds me, if Ragnarok, the time when the Norse gods died, occurred around 1,000 BC, then how are ones like Odin and the like still doing things after that? And how is it that they aren't primarily worshipped till around 2,000 years later? Were the transmissions from Valhalla slow like that one episode of Futuruma? Or did they reincarnate like some versions of Ragnarok imply despite not really matching up with history? And if they did die around 1,000 BC, who worshipped them exactly? The earliest I can find for when Odin was worshipped is around 200 BC but he should've already been dead by then.

  13. #150033
    リビングデッド Living Dead Bar's Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Reminds me, if Ragnarok, the time when the Norse gods died, occurred around 1,000 BC, then how are ones like Odin and the like still doing things after that? And how is it that they aren't primarily worshipped till around 2,000 years later? Were the transmissions from Valhalla slow like that one episode of Futuruma? Or did they reincarnate like some versions of Ragnarok imply despite not really matching up with history? And if they did die around 1,000 BC, who worshipped them exactly? The earliest I can find for when Odin was worshipped is around 200 BC but he should've already been dead by then.
    They could simply have been worshipped at that time before, and the cults were simply passed on without modern historians not knowing about it. At this point in the number of justifications regarding the Age of Gods's discrepancies with the not-so-accurate dates of our history. You should know by now that what we record in history is not always what actually happened during that time. Orlean's section 2, or the very mentions of Tiamat in Babylon about it being "different from what is recorded historically", by instance. It's just a generalized excuse to justify this kind of thing.

    And, they could still interfere with things by human faith yet, that's the whole stuff about Divine Spirits still being able to act during AoG's final years before man's civilization was fully established in the primacy. At the beginning of Babylon, by instance, Da Vinci already says that at the time they're in, Gods are already absent figures in interfering directly with the world on their own. But the worships and faith placed upon them, still allowed interference in smaller scales.

  14. #150034
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Divine Spirits still exist thanks to the belief of the people, and besides, we know so little about the history of Norse religion/Germanic paganism IRL that there is a ton of wiggle room for Type Moon. That does not excuse Scathach-Skadi, though...
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
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  15. #150035
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Reminds me, if Ragnarok, the time when the Norse gods died, occurred around 1,000 BC, then how are ones like Odin and the like still doing things after that? And how is it that they aren't primarily worshipped till around 2,000 years later? Were the transmissions from Valhalla slow like that one episode of Futuruma? Or did they reincarnate like some versions of Ragnarok imply despite not really matching up with history? And if they did die around 1,000 BC, who worshipped them exactly? The earliest I can find for when Odin was worshipped is around 200 BC but he should've already been dead by then.
    Gods probably went to the Reverse side in some way. We know people like Vishnu can still interact with Servants so it's not that questionable.

  16. #150036
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    I'm curious. Did Fate/Zero mention how the Hassan sacrificed to Gilgamesh was chosen among Hundred Face's? Did purple hair just decide to send Zayd because fuck Zayd

  17. #150037
    屍食鬼 Ghoul Arete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bar's Angel View Post
    They could simply have been worshipped at that time before, and the cults were simply passed on without modern historians not knowing about it. At this point in the number of justifications regarding the Age of Gods's discrepancies with the not-so-accurate dates of our history. You should know by now that what we record in history is not always what actually happened during that time. Orlean's section 2, or the very mentions of Tiamat in Babylon about it being "different from what is recorded historically", by instance. It's just a generalized excuse to justify this kind of thing.

    And, they could still interfere with things by human faith yet, that's the whole stuff about Divine Spirits still being able to act during AoG's final years before man's civilization was fully established in the primacy. At the beginning of Babylon, by instance, Da Vinci already says that at the time they're in, Gods are already absent figures in interfering directly with the world on their own. But the worships and faith placed upon them, still allowed interference in smaller scales.
    I don't have much trouble with most of the liberties they take with the Norse, mostly just find it confusing in how Ragnarok occurs about 2,000 years before the major sect that worships those gods arises. Did Ragnarok just destroy the texture of the Norse gods then, and that's what it means by them 'dying'? It does make some sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Divine Spirits still exist thanks to the belief of the people, and besides, we know so little about the history of Norse religion/Germanic paganism IRL that there is a ton of wiggle room for Type Moon. That does not excuse Scathach-Skadi, though...
    I remember Da Vinci mentioning how the Norse stuff was largely a mystery still to mages, so it really annoys me when we have the likes of Scathach-Skadi who could give some answers on the matter but doesn't seem to even when we summon her.

  18. #150038
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    I'm curious. Did Fate/Zero mention how the Hassan sacrificed to Gilgamesh was chosen among Hundred Face's? Did purple hair just decide to send Zayd because fuck Zayd

    Oh, oh, I actually know this one. Basically, among the various personas, many possessed unique skills and abilities not shared by the others, Zayd did not, so he was basically considered the most expendable as all his abilities could be duplicated by one of the others.
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  19. #150039
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AAM1232 View Post
    Gods probably went to the Reverse side in some way. We know people like Vishnu can still interact with Servants so it's not that questionable.
    Or wherever the Throne of Gods might be. I mean, Pa human Zeus also interacts with Europa, at least according to her, and is watching Chaldea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    I don't have much trouble with most of the liberties they take with the Norse, mostly just find it confusing in how Ragnarok occurs about 2,000 years before the major sect that worships those gods arises. Did Ragnarok just destroy the texture of the Norse gods then, and that's what it means by them 'dying'? It does make some sense.



    I remember Da Vinci mentioning how the Norse stuff was largely a mystery still to mages, so it really annoys me when we have the likes of Scathach-Skadi who could give some answers on the matter but doesn't seem to even when we summon her.
    I'm pretty sure Ragnarok is the mechanism by which the Norse texture was destroyed to make way for the new texture, and the gods' physical bodies were destroyed in the process, leading to their remaining as Divine Spirits up to the Viking Era. It's also worth noting that these gods were worshipped in various forms across the region since potentially Neolithic times, so to say they were destroyed before they were majorly worshipped seems a bit off to me.

    Also, my annoyance with Scathach-Skadi is that she is clearly based off pseudo-comparative mythology bullshit from the '70s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  20. #150040
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    I don't have much trouble with most of the liberties they take with the Norse, mostly just find it confusing in how Ragnarok occurs about 2,000 years before the major sect that worships those gods arises. Did Ragnarok just destroy the texture of the Norse gods then, and that's what it means by them 'dying'? It does make some sense.



    I remember Da Vinci mentioning how the Norse stuff was largely a mystery still to mages, so it really annoys me when we have the likes of Scathach-Skadi who could give some answers on the matter but doesn't seem to even when we summon her.
    I saw it as more nasu/whoever realizing that norse stuf is mostly post AD which is post AOG so they did this slapdash solution

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