Francis Xavier
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She wasn't. She made it her single purpose to hunt him down every time he respawned, but there's no indication she was thinking about ending the cycle.Originally Posted by ballinamon
Francis Xavier
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She wasn't. She made it her single purpose to hunt him down every time he respawned, but there's no indication she was thinking about ending the cycle.
don't quote me on this
A villainous Francis Xavier would be hilarious, considering that the Catholic Church in Japan chose him as their patron saint. That said, it wouldn’t be too surprising. The relatively positive portrayal that the real institution of the Catholic Church got in early Nasuverse works can be chalked up to an “underground attitude” of breaking cultural taboos as a young author—in the same way that edgy kids in America often say they like Buddhism.
The fact that the Tokugawa regime got a very uncritical portrayal in the Ooku event, combined with all the Japanwank in FGO, is evidence to me that new-TM is a lot less inclined to criticize the people who make up its primary—honestly, only—market, and more negatively portraying other religions would align well with that change of attitude
So I've finally watched the last Heaven's Feel movie. I have a question, they seem to have changed how the fight between Kirei and Assassin goes unless I'm remembering wrong, but I though originally Kirei exorcised(more or less) Hassan because he technically could be considered an evil spirit and that's how he defeated it.
But in the movie he does it to Zouken? Was that a change just to make him look cool or should kyrie eleison working on Zouken be possible?
You are remembering wrong.
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
I know he's been blamed for setting the stage for the Goa Inquisition, but what sort of villainy would he get blamed for in Japan? Or would the mere act of converting people be sinister enough?
O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed you have not already collapsed in ruin.
Kirei pins TA to the wall, exorcises Zouken, then the narration says that with TA unanchored, he's no different from any other spirit, and can be exorcised, and then TA leaves.
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Ah I see. I totally forgot Zouken was there too, only seemed to recall part of the narration. Thanks.
Honestly, yes. It’s easy to positively portray figures from other cultures’ religions when they’re incredibly old, mythological, or can be turned into waifus, but a lot harder when they’re part of your history, and tried and failed to change your culture (never mind that Francis Xavier tried specifically to mold Christianity to Japanese cultural needs and vocabulary!) TM has been portraying the Tokugawa in a wholly uncritical light since Shimosa in FGO, even describing them as anachronistically tolerant and open-minded.
There’s no way for them to add in a missionary figure like Xavier in a way that makes them a “good guy” when the Tokugawa tried to stamp their likes out in a narrative where the Tokugawa (likely standing in for Japanese governments as a whole) can do no wrong. If the missionaries were not evil, FGO Tokugawa would see no need to suppress them—unless TM took a major swerve and gave them Nero-esque tragic villain qualities
I thought that was kind of the case in Ooku? Then again, I know very little about the event other than that the Tokugawa were the perfect mold for Kama-Mara to use for her plan to flood the world with love or something, so how the Tokugawa are portrayed, I have no clue.
Only in the most minor way. The event constantly states that nothing depraved ever happened in the real Ooku, and that the reason Kama took over was because Kasuga-no-Tsubone loved the Tokugawa clan too much. The only Tokugawa-associated character portrayed negatively (which in this case, just means betraying Tokugawa) is revealed to have been a double-secret reverse mole trying to bring Kama down from within. We are well and truly within the Nipponwank period of Type-Moon, well befitting its status as Japan’s closest thing to Marvel movies. You might as well get used to it
Even if the Tokugawa are portrayed that way, Amakusa shows us that someone who was their enemy won't necessarily be portrayed as super evil. He's an antagonist yes, but a sympathetic one.
It's strange to call it "wank" when the whole event portrays almost all the Tokugawa shoguns as very pathetic individuals.
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
Also, Muramasa ain't a bad guy, even though all his swords have anti-Tokugawa properties.
In addition, depravity up to a certain level is relative.
Amakusa is described in the Apocrypha materials as having a childish mindset, and not maturing one bit over his 60~ years of incarnation. Shimosa makes him less sympathetic than even the film/novel it’s based on, Makai Tensho—it lingers less on Shimabara, the motivation for Amakusa’s violence, and portrays the Tokugawa more sympathetically.
The pathetic natures of the shogun are contained within dreams constructed by Kama, where Kasuga-no-Tsubone pampered the shogun rather than giving them “tough love.” They’re purposefully counterfactual, both in the encounters with the shogun, who lived in different time periods than her, and her behavior, which is softer than in fact. The skills used throughout the event are all name-drops of the accomplishments of the various shogun, and Kasuga-no-Tsubone, a wet nurse and politician with no real combat ability, is described as good enough of a martial artist to qualify for a summoning as a Lancer.
I’m fine with the wank in the end. Fate is good, and I wouldn’t care if I didn’t like it. It’s a lot less excessive than the patriotism of most American media to boot. But it is wank.
Is there association between Alaya and the color red?
Considering the current line-up of Servants, that's a really poor argument in favor of existence of "Japanwank" specifically. And a bit of whitewashing (in a "everyone is righteous in their own eyes" vein) had always been present in Fate (both Medusa and Medea had the tragic elements emphasized, and monstrous/villainous aspects downplayed, for example).
I'd say that "wank" is an inherent element of designing Servants, especially historical ones, which have to be pulled up to the level of purely legendary and mythical figures. It's just more noticeable in case of Japan, as there are a lot of Japanese Servants.
Last edited by Blastedspider; April 5th, 2021 at 10:28 AM.
Always figured that it was a red shadow because the magic is blue, and this is an aftereffect that eventually catches up with it.
"Primary colors are bullshit."
- David Lynch
It does feel kind of notable that most of the counter guardian examples we have wear red. Maybe that's the explanation for Chokita's inexplicable backstory.
Isn't Hakuno's standard name in English, Francis Xavier?
I don't think so. There's one moment in the game where someone asks them their name and the selectable joke answer is Francis Xavier, though. CCC repeats the joke, but when Hakuno is asked what's Sakura's name.
We've been waiting for Hakuno/Xavier pseudo for years now, not sure if they'll really do it but one thing for sure, hakuno isnt appearing without xavier jokes no matter what.
On one hand Medea is a waifu, then on the other hand she drops casual bombs of like "Yeah, siblings should be a strength to you."
hint hint I cut up my brother onee-san.
F/HA social conversations are a hell of a drug.
Whitewashing exists, but sometimes they don't shy away and that used to be pretty cool. I guess the problem is that the line between sympathetic and innocent is a line finely tred in fiction often to begin with, and it's not something that usually goes well in a low-detail surface work like a gacha that's also doing its best to sell likeability for money in characters.
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