Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Lobo]

Yeah but they said it was possible for LB3, at least with the fake-borders.

No, QSH was been deceive by Hinako into believing the LBs theory was fake, he believed that he was getting cut from the rest of his empire by the storm cloud so he copy the shadow border's ability to pass throught it believing that that way he could reconnect with the rest of his world on the outside. Most probably if he tried it whoever he would had send would have ceased to exist the moment they come out outside.

It was possible to rescue the fairies of LB6 because Morgan burned the Fantasy Tree and then had 2000+ to transform the LB into a Singularity

[Arete]

I understand why Lb6 was an exception; it's not what I'm talking about here. Your point doesn't really make sense since it was Chaldea who said it was possible for his pseudo-borders to reach other Lostbelts. If they would've just disappeared once they left, there'd have been no real threat. In the case of the other lostbelts, the reason why Ivan and Surtr posed a threat was because they were using the Fantasy Trees themselves, but QSH had no idea about the trees until the end, yet it was said his inventions could still reach other lostbelts despite not even knowing what a fantasy tree is.

[fumei]

Could you post the actual lines of dialogue you're referencing here? Would be way more productive for clarifying what's going on than paraphrasing.
(You can check Atlas for the scripts easily.)

[madarra]

Werent the LBs supposed to fight one another? In which case i assume people from 1 Fantasy tree can walk into another Fantasy tree world just fine and its just the Real world thats the problem? and QSH just obtained the methods to start invading other LBs

Also, did Chaldea know at that point that OSH didnt know he's not real

[Reign]

Were they planning to fight each other with armies or would it be some conceptual thing where the storm walls would clash and the stronger tree would make the weaker one disappear?

Anyway Asterios's version from LB5 appeared in LB1.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Were they planning to fight each other with armies or would it be some conceptual thing where the storm walls would clash and the stronger tree would make the weaker one disappear?

The former I think. The Lostbelt Kings have the authority over the Tree, so defeating them is mandatory to weaken it.

Though that rule might not apply in LB6, where the Tree is no more. Instead, they probably must defeat Cernunnos and Oberon before its collapse threatening the world.

[All fictions]

Wars between Lostbelts would have been sick.

[Lily Emilio]

Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, but shouldn't the fact that QSH found a way to get people out of his lostbelt be more significant? Like at the end of his LB, why can't he just load up a bunch of people on the fake shadow border's he's made so that they can get out past the barrier since they admit that that's possible with these ones. Having no choice but to genocide entire worlds is one thing, but we have a choice here. Heck, given that we now know it's possible to get other people out via this way, why can't we just build replicas of the SB in other LB's? It'd certainly be possible in the Greek lostbelt.

It kinda sounds like the answer to one of the major problems of the arc has been shown to us.

Also on that note, why is that the people riding QSH's shadow boarders would be able to survive getting past the storm walls when we're told that if we take someone in our storm board it won't work? Was that just a lie?

I think you need to reread that part of the chapter. The fake Shadow Borders he created are mere normal armored combat vehicles, tax collection tanks. Those were completely destroyed easily by our servants. They might have the looks of the Shadow Border, but according to Da Vinci and Holmes they lack the durability and the technology required to survive the Zero Sail, something crucial to break outside of the storm wall surrounding the LB using the Imaginary Number dive. Those ripoff Shadow Borders are pretty much trash in this regard. There is no retcon because it is impossible to smuggle people outside of the storm wall with neither the real Border + the fakes.

[Herod]

Also, did Chaldea know at that point that OSH didnt know he's not real

QSH was real.
All the people in the lostbelts were real.
Their PAST is simulated. And not even all of it, only the period between pruning and restoration.

[madarra]

Nice platitudes, their lives have value and all that, but i need a way to refer to people who Fizzle out when pulled out of their LB to bleached earth and i chose Not Real

[Herod]

You are free to make up word meanings for your own imaginary vocabulary, I guess.

[fumei]

Incompatible is otherwise a very fitting term all things considered.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

Wars between Lostbelts would have been sick.

I'm very disappointed this plot point was completely dropped. Would've loved to see those very different histories interact, instead of it always being PHH vs Lostbelt.

[Herod]

I don't think it would have actually happened, even without chaldea interference.

[Quoren]

It seems the whole point is for the LBs to slowly expand and overwrite the blank world, so they should eventually have begun to interact once LB5 began encroaching on the territory of any that didn't self-destruct. Whether the Alien God wants that to happen or if they'd be all wiped out to be supplanted by something else is another question.

[fumei]

You know, at the end of the day I just sort of imagined that once the Alien God manifested in Olympus, she'd just stop giving a shit about her deal with Kirsch for his friends to get a chance because then they would have already obviously lost, and she would've just taken out the remaining lostbelts on her own with her pseudo-black hole stuff and whatnot, so it would have never gotten to the point where they would have clashed. But I guess we'll never know.

[Herod]

The whole Lostbelt narrative was like a giant Holy Grail War with realities instead of Servants, and like the original one it was a scam since the beginning.
(also, like the original, a story about a straight up war it's more interesting in theory than in practice).

[Byegod]

Are magical binding oaths or contracts a thing, just something i had a thought of just now with the whole idea of alien god betraying the deal

EDIT: yeah they are, geases and what kiritusgu used in zero

then again why make a contract that hurts you when youri n the position of power

[Ratman]

What Kiritsugu used is explicitly a geas, pattern-wise. I guess it is pretty notable in that it seems to be very universally replicable, rather than having to learn the entirety of magecraft with runes from the ground up first.

The reason why you'd use that kind of contract is that a 'vow' has always been something that that empowers you in various mythologies all the way up to Christianity. A Xia protagonist buffing himself up through celibate is not that different from an abrahamic monk/prophet/saint, which is not that different from a celtic warrior. In some cultures it's just a subset of general law. The result is that making people break their vows nerfs them, but you can arrive to the reason the vow exists from a few directions. I guess in general Nasuverse sense you could theorycraft that there's power in being a more clearly defined person with less freedom to do stupid things.

[Arete]

I think you need to reread that part of the chapter. The fake Shadow Borders he created are mere normal armored combat vehicles, tax collection tanks. Those were completely destroyed easily by our servants. They might have the looks of the Shadow Border, but according to Da Vinci and Holmes they lack the durability and the technology required to survive the Zero Sail, something crucial to break outside of the storm wall surrounding the LB using the Imaginary Number dive. Those ripoff Shadow Borders are pretty much trash in this regard. There is no retcon because it is impossible to smuggle people outside of the storm wall with neither the real Border + the fakes.

Right, I did check and it seems I'd forgotten that they didn't get access to the Zero Sail capabilities, but they do still mention he'd be able to get outside with it. One would expect even if they didn't survive a Zero sail for a start QSH would just keep improving them.

Here's the bit I was thinking about:

Goredolf
And because of that, we're still the only ones with the ability to Zero Sail between Lostbelts as we please,
but–
Meunière
If one of the Lostbelts had the Border, they'd have a serious leg up over the others, huh.
Meunière
Damn, I can't believe this Qin Shi Huang was thinking that far ahead.
Holmes
Indeed. Though all of this assumes that China does indeed have all the other nations under its rule.
Goredolf
...Hmm. Then once Qin Shi Huang ventures outside this Lostbelt, the first move they make will be to go on the attack against other Lostbelts rather than Chaldea.

I suppose it does depend on what exactly they mean when they say "once Qin Shi Huang ventures outside" if they mean when QSH sends a drone he controls himself outside or if it just means his forces. They mention it'd be the case for any LB anyway so that point probably doesn't matter. Still I don't really see a reason for why a person piloting/riding in a makeshift shadow border would disappear once they left the LB yet their ride doesn't.

EDIT: Did they ever say that we couldn't take people from a Lostbelt with us in the SB? I thought they had but I can't find a quote.