Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Ratman]

In the Throne, the individual 'character' is a bunch of data which can be turned a lot of things, for example manifest as a Counter Guardian. There is also, seemingly, an absolutely minimal file of how the record has been used, which is referenced when it's reused, which can result in the Servant being aware of a previous summon, but usually doesn't.

The Fuyuki Grail system interprets that bundle of data into whatever works, which can be a few different classes, and adds a bunch of pre-determined data like modern language. For Diarmuid, that original bundle has him as a swordsman and a spearman, but in a Grail War he can only be one of those, so the Grail picks one and discards the rest of the record. Their personality can end up being something more fit to what they were like in respect to using those weapons/tools/skills.

In case of Extra this doesn't matter because literally your mom can be a servant in the Moon Cell.

In FGO this doesn't matter because that bunch of data they've originally downloaded, which maybe vaguely looks like what's in the Throne, can be 'enhanced' with complete nonsense from Lostbelts or Singularities, or create fresh records of people who aren't in the throne at all, like Kiara, or even things that have absolutely no business being Servants, like Foreigners.

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Lancer Artoria is in London, which has a bunch of other issues. You could say don't think about it too hard, but you could also say she's King Arthur summoned as the King of the Wild Hunt, and given Ron because there's no reason she can't have it instead of Excalibur if the summoning mechanism thinks it's a good idea. It's present in the record.

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Okita Alter is also a joke character down to her being a Counter Guardian. Why is she an Alterego? Who knows? Why can a servant at all outright be summoned as Alter when the first and only case of it we have seen is Saber falling into the curse pool, which is how she turned into someone she never was in reality? Don't think about it too hard.

[Comun]

Okita Alter is a complete mess with 3 different backstories, yeah, but I could argue that the 3rd version (FGO) is a completely serious version. The 2nd version (Teito Kitan and most likely Type Redline in the future) too since she's never used for jokes, but she's also a ridiculous and underexplained power up rather that her own character, so I wouldn't count that.

[Reverse_side98]

In the Throne, the individual 'character' is a bunch of data which can be turned a lot of things, for example manifest as a Counter Guardian. There is also, seemingly, an absolutely minimal file of how the record has been used, which is referenced when it's reused, which can result in the Servant being aware of a previous summon, but usually doesn't.

The Fuyuki Grail system interprets that bundle of data into whatever works, which can be a few different classes, and adds a bunch of pre-determined data like modern language. For Diarmuid, that original bundle has him as a swordsman and a spearman, but in a Grail War he can only be one of those, so the Grail picks one and discards the rest of the record. Their personality can end up being something more fit to what they were like in respect to using those weapons/tools/skills.

In case of Extra this doesn't matter because literally your mom can be a servant in the Moon Cell.

In FGO this doesn't matter because that bunch of data they've originally downloaded, which maybe vaguely looks like what's in the Throne, can be 'enhanced' with complete nonsense from Lostbelts or Singularities, or create fresh records of people who aren't in the throne at all, like Kiara, or even things that have absolutely no business being Servants, like Foreigners.

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Lancer Artoria is in London, which has a bunch of other issues. You could say don't think about it too hard, but you could also say she's King Arthur summoned as the King of the Wild Hunt, and given Ron because there's no reason she can't have it instead of Excalibur if the summoning mechanism thinks it's a good idea. It's present in the record.

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Okita Alter is also a joke character down to her being a Counter Guardian. Why is she an Alterego? Who knows? Why can a servant at all outright be summoned as Alter when the first and only case of it we have seen is Saber falling into the curse pool, which is how she turned into someone she never was in reality? Don't think about it too hard.

If you put it like that i may really just give up on looking for any sort of consistency. Such a shame really as i think the nasuverse has one of the most interesting lores. For a precedent to be set on one work only to then either be subverted,ignored,retconned or twisted on another is disappointing to say the least

[Ratman]

There's consistency, but you have to look beyond the veil, so to speak. The rules are still in place, they were just ignored in a certain instance.

The real reason we got Lancer Alter in London is that the Lion King was designed loooooooong before Camelot, and the artist just drew this because it was cool, and they wanted to have another original SR servant in there. The 'theoretical Artoria who used the Ron over the Excalibur and grew old' is really a tease of the Lion King, as far as personality goes LAlter is legitimately closer to regular Saber on a horse with tits than the very specific character we got in Camelot.

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You could also make a wild guess that she is native to the Singularity through something something Clock Tower cleaned out something something Spirit Tomb Albion, I guess.

[Byegod]

Always feels weird ot refer to HS as data when there clearly cognizant in the throne

[LJ3]

Always feels weird ot refer to HS as data when there clearly cognizant in the throne

... well

I'm stumped

[AAM1232]

Always feels weird ot refer to HS as data when there clearly cognizant in the throne

I mean a collection/amalgation of myths and facts isn't exactly that far from data, even if there's sentience.

[Reverse_side98]

I honestly think referring to them as data is really just another way of calling them and way more simple than somthing as abstact as soul

[Reign]

Records might be more natural sounding

[Reverse_side98]

Have another question. Why arent quetz and skadi considered pseudo servants? Quetz from my understanding should qualify as one since mesoamerican gods are kind of alien parasites who needed hosts to manifest. Skadi was fused with scath in lb2 but still had her strength as a god. Her material stated that if she were to normally manifest it would be an avatar. What's the difference between avatars(in the case of quetz and skadi) from pseudo servants? Is the chaldea summoning system really so broken?

[neveron]

Pseudo-servants summon the host body and shove the Heroic Spirit (or Divine Spirit) into them. Thus the constant questions of "hey, Ishtar, what happened to Rin" and whatnot.

Out-of-story, pseudo-servants are also generally preexisting Type-Moon characters given a paper-thin excuse to be summonable.

Quetz presumably isn't doing this because her host was a more physical thing that happens back during secret history: the girl caught the Divine Flu and wow now she's Quetz. The possession took place before the summoning, not after/during, and thus she's just summoned as she was in "life". The same could presumably happen to, say, old man Zouken or Roa or any other body-snatcher.

Scathach and Skadi was Odin fusing them together through weird modern syncretism that might just be Shin Megami Tensei but could also go straight to the weird new age feminist Robert Graves-inspired stuff. (Last I looked that seemed to be where the idea of Scathach as death goddess and god-killer might have come from?)
I'm not really sure about the specific mechanics beyond that weird Japanese "Scathach and Skadi are related, right" idea, though.

EDIT: Although do also note that Lakshmibai lacks the pseudo-servant trait despite IIRC being a psuedo of Alakshmi?

[Reverse_side98]

So basically what separates the two from the normal is pseudo servants fuse during summoning but if its during their life its more like possession. Tho lets say that the ones met during babylonia and lb2 are a divine spirit and a goddess and not actually servants its still kind of bs that chaldea can record their spirit origins and summon them when the initial issue in the beginning is they are too powerful to be summoned without being nerfed.

Reading lakshimi's profile. Yeah she should be a pseudo servant but since the fuse happened during lb4 and not during summoning i guess that's why she doesnt count?

[fumei]

So basically what separates the two from the normal is pseudo servants fuse during summoning but if its during their life its more like possession.

Random person + space virus = Quetz

It's not that quetz IS the space virus and "takes over" the random host to assimilate them into "quetzalcoatl", it's that the existence known as Quetz is the combination of the host and the virus. So no, it's not really possession, it's just how quetz' existence works, and why technically anyone who had the virus is quetz.

[Reverse_side98]

Random person + space virus = Quetz

It's not that quetz IS the space virus and "takes over" the random host to assimilate them into "quetzalcoatl", it's that the existence known as Quetz is the combination of the host and the virus. So no, it's not really possession, it's just how quetz' existence works, and why technically anyone who had the virus is quetz.

I see. That clears it up. So going by that there has also been multiple facets of quetz? I remember her profile saying she was originally male

[Zork Knight]

I see. That clears it up. So going by that there has also been multiple facets of quetz? I remember her profile saying she was originally male

Yeah, originally Quetz possessed animals too
Maybe someday we'll get Avenger Quetz with a different body. Hopefully Cortez doesn't take that from us

[OverMaster]

Why would he take that away? If anything Cortez's presence is the best way to guarantee an Avenger Quetz showing up.

[Comun]

Basically, Quetz, Skadi and Alakshmi are providing their own hosts, while the pseudo-Servants need to take a host from the Holy Grail's gallery.

[Rafflesiac]

What if Cortez actually was Quetz and used his God powers for EVIL

[Zork Knight]

Why would he take that away? If anything Cortez's presence is the best way to guarantee an Avenger Quetz showing up.

Because Cortez is Avenger Quetz (Fake)

[OverMaster]

Plot twist: Pizarro is the one summoned but Quetz mistakes him for Cortez anyway.

All Conquistadors are the same according to the Mayaincatek trope anyway.

Because Cortez is Avenger Quetz (Fake)

When was that stated? AFAIK the most we've seen of Cortez is a hate line from Quetz that might actually not even mean him.