What if they're tatooed onto your skin, or your soul or something fancy like thatOriginally Posted by Dullahan
What if they're tatooed onto your skin, or your soul or something fancy like that
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Russians cannot master nippon steel skills! This is nonsense!
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Cool, thanks, guys.
It is a pity that he didn't even try to shop around, but what you gonna do, I guess? Even if for some reason he decided not to put Sakura up for adoption, I doubt Tokiomi would've been willing to let such a large number of high quality circuits just go to waste, so Sakura probably would've had them pulled out and added to the Tohsaka crest instead. How well that would've gone for her afterwards, idk.
So basically the same as Shirou. Really strong but also kind of limited.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
Prime Zouken being able to win against Servants is probably as much due to excellent compatibility as it is to raw power. He was involved in designing the summoning system, made the Command Spells, etc, so it wouldn't be surprising if he had a few cheat cards specifically for dealing with Servants, like the magical equivalent of bringing a remote control or an EMP to a fight with an android. Even as an old man, he had no problems ganking Kojirou and puppeteering Caster's corpse; given his underwhelming performance in other areas, both those feats imply "very good at handling Servants" more than "overwhelming power".
Speaking of which, are there are any magi living in the modern era who have a better/deeper understanding of how Servants work than Zouken does? I'm sure there must be some, but nobody's coming to mind right now.
Marisbilly and Dr. Heartless are pretty knowledgeable but I can't say for sure if more than Zouken.
Servants specifically- probably not, since as you said he personally helped design/designed the Servant system (cribbed from the Grand system though it may have been). Though Waver is probably as close to an expert on the matter as one can get. Heroic Spirits/Ghost Liners and other higher order spirits, well, there's a department in the Clock Tower for that.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Beyond him fighting Archer no problem and only bringing out the Medea puppet because “Hoho, TWO servants would be a problem.” When saber comes out. Well certainly he’s absolutely got compatibility after compatibility along with understanding and familiarity stacked. But another way to look at it is that as amazing and scary as he is there are definitely even scarier magi hanging about. Which well, isn’t new news but yeah.
Wasn't that the Shadow?
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Under Zouken's control, yes, but it's not as if he fought Kojirou himself, was it?
It very much seems to be Zouken. Doesn’t really match the other shadow scenes.
Was the mystery person who overpowered Kojirou supposed to be the Shadow? They stroked Kojirou's cheek, which doesn't seem like a very Shadow-like thing to do (at least, not without absorbing him...). And then True Assassin comes out, and the narration says "the only ones who witnessed his birth were the swarm of insects and the moonlight". So I always assumed Zouken just soloed Kojirou himself.
Then again, the Shadow hadn't even been introduced at that point, so it wasn't exactly in my mind when I first read that scene. In hindsight, maybe the mystery attacker was supposed to be the Shadow.
I mean the Shadow was there after Shirou and Saber kill Caster and go home, so very possibly.
That said, I prefer to believe in Sword-Saint Zouken.
He's had 500 years to master the blade
"When you were researching, I studied the insect.
When you were having premartial sex with your definitely not a wish granting phenomenona girlfriend, I mastered the dickworm.
While you wasted your days in the Clock Tower pursuing the Root, I cultivated the ultimate Simp.
And now that the world is about to engulfed in All the Evils of the World you have the audacity to come to me to stop it."
Just needs a photoshop of Zouken in a fedora.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
"You could not live with your own failure. And where did that bring you? Back to me." ~Zouken to Kariya, circa 2000
Last edited by Deathhappens; August 12th, 2020 at 08:14 AM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Did you not read literally anything with Tokiomi in it?
Tokiomi's entire deal was "WOW I CAN GET BOTH MY GIRLS INTO MAGICAL COLLEGE NOW", not "wow if rin's this great, how great would she be if i ripped some bits out of my other daughter and gave them to her on her next birthday???"
I've seen some people with problems with Tokiomi, but I've never seen someone flip his character inside out this badly lmao.
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I'm guessing ILurkNoMoar didn't really mean it that way, but yeah, extracting someone's magic circuits is not exactly a healthy operation, it wouldn't really add much to the Tohsaka crest (since they'd be entirely undeveloped) and it would destroy the traits that made Sakura such a potentially huge prodigy (can't really make use of a rare Sorcery/Thaumaturgical trait if you can't use Magecraft at all).
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
How do you extract magic circuits? Was there something regarding Soul Surgery in Fate?
I seem to recall a mention, but I don't remember whether it was a discussion or something that could actually happen.
Also, I thought Tokiomi's whole schtick was that he was genuinely convinced he was doing what was best for both daughters and had every reason to believe Zouken despite being an slimy bastard.
So question, but what does May Riddell Archelot magecraft actually entail? I know details are scarce, but what exactly is her Goblin Nest? Does it produce actual Goblins, as in Fae ones, that grant her different effects depending on the right one?
Honestly there are only isolated feats without much expression of the true nature of it, so the thing of might be able to give her varied effects would be a valid speculation, but, as you said, things are pretty scarce. Things like she managed to "avoid" the rain to the point of not getting wet when she was entering the mansion, or having used a Goblin to also prevent the Helicopter from suffering any kind of turbulence due the rain, and the thing of even with the phone line being cut off for everyone, she was still able to call her father twice, and send her coordinates to a military helicopter, when this communication cut was part of Sweet Hearts' actions too.
Overall Liddell seems to be very skilled, or at least to have some very interesting gimmicks since Alice mentions this sometimes too. Throughout "Potete dormire, ma nessun rida", she talks about abandoning the game and that a "Ploy as old-fashioned as that cannot beat me", and although she literally dies in one of the scenarios, and even calling the Helicopter it's hitting by lightning, there's never a correction about Liddell not being able to escape Sweet Hearts in some aspects, but simply that the other external factors wouldn't cooperate with her. I also don't remember exactly if it was by the circumstances of the game itself, but in one of the scenarios when her heart is forced to stop, she simply counteracts this by nullifying the effect before actually dying, which impresses even Beo to the point of praising her tenacity.
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