Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[ILurkNoMoar]

Was reading through Notes and had a few questions pop into my head that weren't answered in the glossary.

Since the planet kicked the bucket that would mean Gaia is gone, but since Humanity is still at least nominally around Alaya should still be around, right? At least that's if the Counter Force decided not to just cull the timeline with how screwed everything is...

Actually, would the Counter Force just continue the Notes timeline for the A-Rays and Ether Liners after vanilla Humanity died off under the reasoning of as both are successors to previous Humanity they're "close enough" to be be considered Human, or would it not give a shit about them?

Any answers to my rambling would be appreciated, thanks.

[Dullahan]

nasu hadn't yet thought of most of this stuff back when he wrote notes, so the answer is 'whatever you can justifiably argue'

[Comun]

Also consider that there's nothing saying this timeline isn't pruned.

[Ratman]

Actually, would the Counter Force just continue the Notes timeline for the A-Rays and Ether Liners after vanilla Humanity died off under the reasoning of as both are successors to previous Humanity they're "close enough" to be be considered Human, or would it not give a shit about them?

Liner is just a different term for magus btw

If you're talking literal causality then Nasu hasn't thought of it, but thematically, the state of humanity in Notes exemplifies certain aspects of mankind that Nasu likes to put on a pedestal in his grand quest of modernism. Notes is kind of him subverting himself ahead of time, like 'what if everything I thought was good was bad'.

Regardless, we are shown a world in turmoil, and that kind of an environment brings out the very best in humanity compared to what you get in lostbelts. The collective enemy is clear, and all that's left for people to do is their very best. The strong presence of Alaya in Notes basically proves that Liners are still human. It's a twisted form of what humanity used to be, that lost a lot of its beauty and fun being alive, but it's twisted to the function of adapting and overcoming. It's the opposite of humanity becoming 'dull' like it tends to in Lostbelts, or in Tsuki no Sango. It's become way too sharp.

Notes isn't a doomed future. It's just one in an extremely bad state, but it's strongly implied that mankind can pull through sacrificing everything in the process. What Liners decide to do with themselves after they win, that might be a concern for the pruning mechanism, but the conflict that's going on certainly isn't.

[ILurkNoMoar]

Liner is just a different term for magus btw

Ah, is that so? I would've though they were something similar, but distinct from the normal Magus since they were genetically engineered and the mana produced by the planet disappeared as the Earth died. Doesn't help that a few of the materials I saw described the Liners as a subspecies of A-Ray that kept their Human appearance, which further complicates things.

If you're talking literal causality then Nasu hasn't thought of it, but thematically, the state of humanity in Notes exemplifies certain aspects of mankind that Nasu likes to put on a pedestal in his grand quest of modernism. Notes is kind of him subverting himself ahead of time, like 'what if everything I thought was good was bad'.

Regardless, we are shown a world in turmoil, and that kind of an environment brings out the very best in humanity compared to what you get in lostbelts. The collective enemy is clear, and all that's left for people to do is their very best. The strong presence of Alaya in Notes basically proves that Liners are still human. It's a twisted form of what humanity used to be, that lost a lot of its beauty and fun being alive, but it's twisted to the function of adapting and overcoming. It's the opposite of humanity becoming 'dull' like it tends to in Lostbelts, or in Tsuki no Sango. It's become way too sharp.

Notes isn't a doomed future. It's just one in an extremely bad state, but it's strongly implied that mankind can pull through sacrificing everything in the process. What Liners decide to do with themselves after they win, that might be a concern for the pruning mechanism, but the conflict that's going on certainly isn't.

Very cool then, thanks for the info.

[Ratman]

We don't really know exactly what the frick Liners are, that's mostly a guess - but Liner is a term also used for Magus elsewhere. It makes sense that if any kind of human would be able to survive, it'd be the people who train all their life in directing energies within their body already.

A-Ray is a pun on Eirei, a Heroic Spirit. No, this does not make sense. Don't think about it too hard.

[the god of world-0]

Grand Saber Ado Edem confirmed

[Ratman]

Between 'Spark Liner High' and 'Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya', which I now realize sounds disturbingly similar to 'Pastel Defender Heliotrope', we can kind of speculate that Liner might more specifically refer to the ability to very efficiently channel energy and reproduce blueprints. In both cases it is straight magecraft, though. I could have sworn there was something else in Extra, but I forgot about it.

[All fictions]

What about Ghostliners?

[Ratman]

No idea. It might be also be that 'liner' itself refers to the person itself being or taking upon themselves a blueprint of some sort, meaning 'Liner' in Notes would just mean they're homunculi.

[neveron]

Between 'Spark Liner High' and 'Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya', which I now realize sounds disturbingly similar to 'Pastel Defender Heliotrope', we can kind of speculate that Liner might more specifically refer to the ability to very efficiently channel energy and reproduce blueprints. In both cases it is straight magecraft, though. I could have sworn there was something else in Extra, but I forgot about it.

CCC has a random reference to over count 1999, but I don't remember if it had anything about Liners.

Given the current takes on how True Ether messes you up and may-or-may-not be Grain, though, Liners certainly don't seem like they're just magi. Magi still need protective equipment for the Reverse/Age of Gods (as demonstrated in FGO Camelot and then promptly ignored), but the defining feature of Liners is how unlike normal humans they don't need medicine to survive in the new atmosphere.

[Comun]

Also in Last Encore, Twice straight up blames the Harwey family for Overcount 1999.

[Leon Cromwell]

How many servants do we have that are not considered proper Heroic Spirits?

[All fictions]

No idea. It might be also be that 'liner' itself refers to the person itself being or taking upon themselves a blueprint of some sort, meaning 'Liner' in Notes would just mean they're homunculi.

My understanding was that it was Engrish about reading, books, and records:

Q (Someone at the far end): The Mages call Heroic Spirits “Boundary of Recording Bands (Ghost Liners),” but is this the actual terminology? And what does it symbolize?

Nasu: They are not minions created by the Mages themselves, but minions called forth from the history of humanity itself, so they use the term “Ghost Liners” with the nuance that they are “calling forth a phenomenon that was once recorded.” It’s a liner based on the perception that Servants are not living creatures but something more like scrolls and documents.

[Ratman]

Dreaded it for a while, but this better not be from 'lineart'.

- - - Updated - - -

How many servants do we have that are not considered proper Heroic Spirits?

Before FGO, it was mostly Kojiro and later Jack being wraiths, with the note that Medusa is closer to a Divine Spirit, suggesting that it's not really a hard locker you have to fit into. After FGO, they just started giving us whatever and gave up on justifying it.

[SpoonyViking]

The Hassans are wraiths, too, since their work by definition involved them not being famous as individuals.
I think his questions had mostly to do with anti-heroes, though, like Medea and Medusa?

[neveron]

Beyond the vagueries with anti-heroes, there are definitely way more non-Heroic Spirit Servants these days. FGO has a glut of Divine Spirits, obviously, but you've also got a couple weird Servants that are literally just living people that got a ride into Chaldea (hi, Shiki, Merlin). You've also got the extremely puzzling case of Fujino, who seems to be summoned as a Counter Guardian entirely based on some old Kagetsu Tohya lore about psychics working for the planet??
And then there's the phantoms, who aren't even strong enough to be wraiths, and weird shit like whatever's going on with Jeanne Alter.

If I'd have to guess, we're definitely into the double-digits and might even be at two dozen or so non-HS Servants? Maybe some of those aren't technically Servants and just act as such because of game mechanics, but they've been pretty loose about that stuff.

[Blastedspider]

I have a question about Viy's origin.

In the taiboo's summary, he is called a descendant of Balor and identified with Solodiviy Bunio and Boniak But in the official translation, Anastasia says that Gogol was inspired by these mythological figures instead, implying that there is no direct connection between them. Which version is correct?

[You]

Isn't it like the case with any other book Servants.
The person was real but the works surrounding them are embellished to some extent.
Also there was something about Viy coming from a pruned timeline. So it might be like a Matter of France situation too.

[Blastedspider]

That makes sense. If we go for historical context Boniak was an actually existing person, a Cuman warchief of XI-XIIth centuries. He was already mythologized in life and over the course of the centuries became known as Solodiviy Bunio (the killing gaze was attributed to him during that time), which served as basis for Viy of Gogol's novel.

Now, what is unclear to me is the relationahip between these three iterations in Fate. Are these are just different names for the same entity? Or they are separate creatures similar in nature?