Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Takashi]

Yeah that anyone includes fujou clan that is.
In the countless history of their clan. I am saying it's all. They probably tried every possible way to make them stronger just like how they tried to make shiki an omnipotent being by putting countless personalities into her body.
It's not one or the other

[Takashi]

Same goes for asagami fujino.
Activation of her origin may have done that. Their family doesn't have a history with magecraft but here we are.

[madarra]

Wouldnt the argument get dismantled by pointing out that Pure eyes are inheritance of Karma and the Ryougi and Nanaya being good friends just implies they teamed up alot/killed the same Oni god/got "cursed together" and ended up labeled with the same Karma to get pure eyes

Also arent mystic eyes a separate thing from magecraft and mages just use their knowledge to trigger the ability

Even Shirou/FSN narration knows that the owners of powerful(as in cool and unique mystic eyes) are always born with them even if they dont activate until "traumatizing incidents" even if that incident is just mage tampering


Also, getting mystic eye genes from Fujous would be quite ironic since Fujous need to go blind to get powers.

[Maedhros]

I have absolutely no bearing on this argument at all but I feel like Shirou stating something as fact in F/SN narration is the opposite of proof because that dude is horrendously misinformed about magecraft lmao

[Takashi]

Wouldnt the argument get dismantled by pointing out that Pure eyes are inheritance of Karma and the Ryougi and Nanaya being good friends just implies they teamed up alot/killed the same Oni god/got "cursed together" and ended up labeled with the same Karma to get pure eyes

Also arent mystic eyes a separate thing from magecraft and mages just use their knowledge to trigger the ability

Even Shirou/FSN narration knows that the owners of powerful(as in cool and unique mystic eyes) are always born with them even if they dont activate until "traumatizing incidents" even if that incident is just mage tampering


Also, getting mystic eye genes from Fujous would be quite ironic since Fujous need to go blind to get powers.

That's how they get pure eyes? Was it said in story? For nannayas

[Takashi]

Whether they get it or not. Things just naturally evolve. Every single body it goes through counts for cell to mutate.
And fujino's eyes specifically are combination of esp and magecraft.

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I have absolutely no bearing on this argument at all but I feel like Shirou stating something as fact in F/SN narration is the opposite of proof because that dude is horrendously misinformed about magecraft lmao

It's true. You don't need magecraft knowledge to activate mystic eyes. That's why fujino and some random noobs with no magecraft knowledge can use it

[Nanaya]

Wouldnt the argument get dismantled by pointing out that Pure eyes are inheritance of Karma and the Ryougi and Nanaya being good friends just implies they teamed up alot/killed the same Oni god/got "cursed together" and ended up labeled with the same Karma to get pure eyes

Maybe. I feel like we can't say definitively one way or the other given the holes in how things exactly work or occurred.

lso arent mystic eyes a separate thing from magecraft and mages just use their knowledge to trigger the ability

Aren't they basically the first magecraft? (and the most advanced) in the sense of being single action and just manifesting whatever phenomena. Though some count as psychic abilities like MEoDP or Rider's because you can't reproduce the effect.

[Takashi]

Was it said that's how karma stuff works?
As in that's how they are able to see karma

[aAlouda]

There is one thing I've been wondering.
Why does Rin store her own magical energy in Jewels rather than just use mana from the enviroment? We know she can store energy that's not from herself, and there should be more than enough magical energy avaiable in Fuyuki to easily match the energy she spend stocking up over 10 years for her jewels.

[Takashi]

Using mana from environment is not an easy task that's why especially for quick magecraft. It's more efficient to use odd.
And their magic property is conversion.

[aAlouda]

Using mana from environment is not an easy task that's why especially for quick magecraft. It's more efficient to use odd.
.

Using mana from the enviroment for magecraft is something most proper mages do, Shirou cant do it because he sucks, but it's the common way to use magecraft, even non-gifted mages like Kiritsugu and Aoko can do it. We also see Rin explicitly do it when summoning Archer and more notably at at great potency when Fighting Sakura, where repeatedly absorbed the mana in the cave before unleashing it through the gem sword to destroy the familiar, then opening a path to a paralel world and using the mana from the cave in it too, doing it for every one of Sakura's familiars.

And their magic property is conversion.

Yes? That just means their specialty is storing magical energy in other objects. Rin even specifies that she isn't limited to using her own magical energy, and with some difficulty can even store things that aren't magical energy in her jewels.

[madarra]

in Shirou`s defense he doesnt neccesarily suck, he was just never taught, for all we know he could be good at it.

[aAlouda]

No he actually was. He talks about how Kiritsugu showed him how to do it once when he sees Lancer do it. He does mention that he personally cant do it.

[madarra]

Showed him and "showed him how to do it" are different statements, and do you believe he showed him right when he taught him how to use a magic circuit wrong?

[Takashi]

Using mana from the enviroment for magecraft is something most proper mages do, Shirou cant do it because he sucks, but it's the common way to use magecraft, even non-gifted mages like Kiritsugu and Aoko can do it. We also see Rin explicitly do it when summoning Archer and more notably at at great potency when Fighting Sakura, where repeatedly absorbed the mana in the cave before unleashing it through the gem sword to destroy the familiar, then opening a path to a paralel world and using the mana from the cave in it too, doing it for every one of Sakura's familiars.


Yes? That just means their specialty is storing magical energy in other objects. Rin even specifies that she isn't limited to using her own magical energy, and with some difficulty can even store things that aren't magical energy in her jewels.

Actually yeah..I mixed up the both. It's actually the opposite.
Odd is used for small magecraft but mana is used for great magecraft.

[Clown]

So the Magus Association and Dead Apostles don't want to reveal the supernatural to the public because of mystery but why would the Holy Church not want to reveal the existence of things like mages or vampires if they hate them so much? Wouldn't that cripple both opposing factions while keeping themselves relatively unharmed? I'd imagine dead apostles in particular would probably be wiped out quickly if all of humanity started hunting them down.

[You]

So the Magus Association and Dead Apostles don't want to reveal the supernatural to the public because of mystery but why would the Holy Church not want to reveal the existence of things like mages or vampires if they hate them so much? Wouldn't that cripple both opposing factions while keeping themselves relatively unharmed? I'd imagine dead apostles in particular would probably be wiped out quickly if all of humanity started hunting them down.

Mysteries wouldn't just disappear the second Mario makes Noel go on Twitch to tell her simps that vamps are real so make sure to buy her holy bathwater.
You ever heard of mutually assured destruction?

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There is one thing I've been wondering.
Why does Rin store her own magical energy in Jewels rather than just use mana from the enviroment? We know she can store energy that's not from herself, and there should be more than enough magical energy avaiable in Fuyuki to easily match the energy she spend stocking up over 10 years for her jewels.

Magic by the Greater Source

The Greater Source is the life force filling the outer world, expressed as the life force of the planet, the life force of the air.

The nature of it is the same as the Lesser Source but the amount is many digits off of that than the Lesser Source. However, the amount of the Greater Source that a magus can convert at one time is limited by the magic circuits, so no matter how much is around you, you can't use it without limit.

Also, there is a limit to the amount of magic power one can hold so one can't change the Greater Source to magic power ahead of time and build up the stock inside oneself in great amounts.

You can't just infuse jewels with magical energy.
Rin bleeds herself onto the jewels. No matter if she gets the magical energy via Od or Mana, its the same amount being transferred into the jewel.

[Random]

Sort of a context question than a lore question, but does anyone know the details of Gram's sun connection off the top of their head? I remember having an answer to this at some point, but it completely escapes me.

[Skull]

Are you specifically asking where is it stated in Fate or where is it stated in IRL lore?

[Random]

The latter. Like, where they got it from.