Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Menwearpink]

I'd say the problem isn't that they're trying to do a unique take or spin on the character, but making weird wank fanfiction that's trying to sell them when they're kind of a third rate legend with little meat to them.

I dunno if I had to compare it to something its like that really bad Trojan War show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy:_Fall_of_a_City where you have Paris being the super cool warrior that beats everyone up and is respected by everyone including hector as a peer and even better and it does really dumb weird things.

Its more interesting to work within what actually exists within the point of the story of a legend, or history if you ask me.

Alexander is like weird from a historical prospect but going Alexander is super cool is fair because he's Alexander the Great. Going Constantine is the cool guy who fought really hard when he really wasn't and he didn't amount to too much is weird.

For an example of playing around with a character's points and taking liberties that works well...

Making Achilles into the I burn out and die quick die hard shounen hotblooded guy is sort of playing with and ignoring his laments post death, but you can definitely use it as a means of using him as the shounen hotblooded hero who keeps running forward like a comet and embodies the passionate second greatest hero of Greece as an aspect. Likewise you can still make a post-death "I wish I chose being a nobody farmer instead" angst Achilles as another class or different aspect like Vlad and Vlad. It doesn't quite fit but you can like see why it would still work as a shard of Achilles and how it ties into his abilities and themes story-wise. Because you can divide it up as "Yeah this is achilles before he died, even if he has some regrets he's still all on being a hero is cool and glorious." in terms of attitude easily.

[Kamera]

I still feel that Alexander the Great hasn't been done proper justice as a Heroic Spirit, compared to say, Artoria or even Nobunaga.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly TM deciding to stick Waver up his ass every time he appears kills his potential characterization.

[Byegod]

I would argue it depends on if the original characters elements they ignore was more interesting then the OC stuff, which is typically the case honestly.

Or if its used a choke on characterization or reused over and over

[madarra]

That just sounds like " Its OK when i like it."

[Byegod]

>insert chad yes meme here

But in all seriousness, do you think a lot of the 'anime trope characterization' instead of focusing on historical/myth stuff thats legit interesting is a good thing?

[madarra]

I don't really have historical knowledge(Ive heard of historical people i dont know their lives/relevance) and get most my info from the historicity that is there, between the anime-ness... And some extra info from the people complaining about the lack of extra historical facts.

[Hawkeye]

I still feel that Alexander the Great hasn't been done proper justice as a Heroic Spirit, compared to say, Artoria or even Nobunaga.

He's solo in Extella and Link and while I won't say he gets a lot on his own there, what he does is still pretty fun. Compared to the other Top Servants who are summoned to do their jobs and shit, he's basically there going "Okay, but what if I conquered?" It shows a sort of single-mindedness and drive that I think works with the meeting of kings from Zero, the idea that he almost has to be a parody of a man in order to pursue his goals.

[DelRey]

How long is a magus generation? And how many generations does it take to be respected as a Magus Family?

[Ratman]

One would assume 20 years, as a real-world generation. So a three-generation family would be 60 years old + heir age, and the guy who made the original crest might still live.

Ignore millenials not having children until 30s if that in the first world and whatnot.

[Red Dingo]

Keep in mind that Magus patriarchs will also extend their lives past the normal human life span and this can lead to a Crest skipping a generation or two when passed to the next family head. It also depends on how much blood and sweat each generation puts to develop the family magecraft further. Waver's grandmother developed her magecraft based on pillow talk with her magus sugar daddy. Her heir merely dabbled. Waver dove head first but his family Crest is little more than a square in a glass plane. The Tohsaka's spent six generations and careful selection of mates to produce Best Girl Rin and Sakura.

[Comun]

The Clock Tower rank of Cause, rank 3 out of 7, the "not a bumbling idiot" rank, is considered the greatest honor a family with less than 500 years of history can reasonably achieve (assuming they're starting from scratch instead of branching off from an existing mage family). And as mentioned, the Toosaka had 6 generations in 200 years. We have no idea if that's the norm but 3 per century sounds like a reasonable count for this.

[Quoren]

Goredolf mentions some families having 200-year-old patriarchs like it is relatively common place. The older families like Wodime that apparently have a 1000+ year pedigree and only 13 generations are probably more likely to have fewer generations, while the more recent ones probably have more generations. Though, it all depends on the family's magecraft as well.

[Random]

Depending on your value of "respect", Avicebron notes that to get to his level, you'd need around ten generations.

[pinetree]

The Clock Tower rank of Cause, rank 3 out of 7, the "not a bumbling idiot" rank, is considered the greatest honor a family with less than 500 years of history can reasonably achieve (assuming they're starting from scratch instead of branching off from an existing mage family). And as mentioned, the Toosaka had 6 generations in 200 years. We have no idea if that's the norm but 3 per century sounds like a reasonable count for this.

Magi are absurd dude
500 gets you Cause? Holy shit Waver was right

[Mattias]

I mean, the Emiya family was only a little older than Waver's and their head though murdering everyone his son cared about with even telling him ahead of time was a good idea. Also showing him where the gun was kept while ranting about how the cops are coming.

[Red Dingo]

Norikata was also considered a genius for his time and pedigree. Enough so that he received a Sealing Designation. Touko didn't even inherit her family's Crest so she is effectively the first generation of a cadet branch, yet she was able to accomplish enough shit to get her Sealing Designated too.

[AmADo VII]

Aozaki sisters are so special even after appearance of Lords.

[You]

How long is a magus generation? And how many generations does it take to be respected as a Magus Family?

One would assume 20 years, as a real-world generation. So a three-generation family would be 60 years old + heir age, and the guy who made the original crest might still live.

Ignore millenials not having children until 30s if that in the first world and whatnot.

However, through these methods, one could only on average extend life to the orders of centuries. Even magi could not escape death.
They thus transferred their wishes to their decedents. The reason that magi raised offspring at all was to allow their children to inherit the unfulfilled wishes.
According to the sayings in the world of magi, a magus could only devote all of his effort to research until he was 50. After that, his life should be spent raising an heir... in other words, the "next runner".

~50 years a generation.

As previously mentioned, Cause = respectable.

[Menwearpink]

How long is a magus generation? And how many generations does it take to be respected as a Magus Family?

Clocktower 2015 puts a generation as 50 years for Magi. Of course some mages probably overstay their welcome or the amount of time they're "suppose to have", and some will pass things on quicker but the norm is 50.

To be fair Cause is very much a rank about being a completed mature magus and a proper title, and position.

Keep in mind that Magus patriarchs will also extend their lives past the normal human life span and this can lead to a Crest skipping a generation or two when passed to the next family head. It also depends on how much blood and sweat each generation puts to develop the family magecraft further. Waver's grandmother developed her magecraft based on pillow talk with her magus sugar daddy. Her heir merely dabbled. Waver dove head first but his family Crest is little more than a square in a glass plane. The Tohsaka's spent six generations and careful selection of mates to produce Best Girl Rin and Sakura.

Stealing from a high quality old family (Edelfelts) helps a lot too.

I mean, the Emiya family was only a little older than Waver's and their head though murdering everyone his son cared about with even telling him ahead of time was a good idea. Also showing him where the gun was kept while ranting about how the cops are coming.

I'm really not sure what you're referring to because that has nothing to do with Nori, or Kiri's situation or events. The man didn't really do much wrong and even waited for his son for a dangerous and long time to get back so they could get off zombie island.

Really the moral of the story is that Shirley did everything wrong.

[DelRey]

Thx folks
That was helpful