Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Comun]

Aspects/Factors are stuff like Soul, Mind, Body, which were all 要素.

This "definition" was only used in one sentence, so it makes more sense to assume factor is being used in its dictionary meaning rather than any Type-Moon glossary meaning. Specially since, taking your interpretation, the wording on the sentence implies these three Factors the Moon Cell uses to build their virtual avatars are the only Factors.

[Bookworm Luke]

This "definition" was only used in one sentence, so it makes more sense to assume factor is being used in its dictionary meaning rather than any Type-Moon glossary meaning. Specially since, taking your interpretation, the wording on the sentence implies these three Factors the Moon Cell uses to build their virtual avatars are the only Factors.

I mean, it's not too off though.

Before the EXTRA stuff we already know soul is 2nd, and spirit/mind is 3rd.

I guess body would be 1st or 4th?

[AAM1232]

I mean, it's not too off though.

Before the EXTRA stuff we already know soul is 2nd, and spirit/mind is 3rd.

I guess body would be 1st or 4th?

Body is supposedly 1st, but Extella mats has them refer to body, soul, mind all together rather than separately.

And why would there only be 3 Factors by my definition? The same terminology is used for Devils, Ether and True Ether, so should things not stay consistent in TLs?

[Bookworm Luke]

Body is supposedly 1st, but Extella mats has them refer to body, soul, mind all together rather than separately.

I am not sure Body was actually name dropped in Fate like the other ones, otherwise it would have been in the Japanese glossary.

I am too lazy to go through Fate to look for it.

[Comun]

And why would there only be 3 Factors by my definition?

SE.RA.PHにおける電脳体とは、肉体・精神・魂の三要素を霊子化したものを指す。

The kind of structure used in 三要素 implies 3 as the complete set, not as the amount of components present. Think of how people say 四天王 even when there's only one of them there.

so should things not stay consistent in TLs?

Not when "factor" is common use word that gets thrown around for its dictionary definition way more often than its used as series terminology.

[AAM1232]

The kind of structure used in 三要素 implies 3 as the complete set, not as the amount of components present. Think of how people say 四天王 even when there's only one of them there.



Not when "factor" is common use word that gets thrown around for its dictionary definition way more often than its used as series terminology.

Considering that FGO has Da Vinci use that same terminology for other stuff, I'm not seeing how that implication can be taken as it is.

Aspect is fine with me too, I just disagree that Element should be used there for the description of Devils/Demons when the consistent TL is Aspect/Factor for that.

[Leftovers]

The most common rendition of 要素 was "substance".

[Bookworm Luke]

The most common rendition of 要素 was "substance".

Let's call it "Youso-desu" because we are weebs.

[fire_mountain_30]

i was thinking of RMs that turn inwards.

where can i read more about IRL religious or ideological thought on a person being a world or universe unto themselves?

[Dullahan]

ancient religious text dies irae: amantes amentes

[fire_mountain_30]

ancient religious text dies irae: amantes amentes

yes, i am aware that they use a similar concept 5 years after FSN was made popular

[Byegod]

Iunno, some alchemy stuff also focuses on purifying oneself spiritually but thats not much to do with what your after.

adam kadmon?

[LeadDemon]

where can i read more about IRL religious or ideological thought on a person being a world or universe unto themselves?

There's a fair amount of stuff that's about making oneself reflective of the world, depending on where you look. If you want a very very transparent example, Jain cosmology posits that the universe is shaped like a human body.

[Tenshi]

Are 本物の悪魔 and 真性悪魔 different things?

Extra's Material seems to give some kind of distinction, so I always interpreted that the first case, is when a 受肉した悪魔 managed to get rid of his previous Designations, and that 真性悪魔 are the ones that could already manifest themselves autonomously since the beginning. And that's why the Church specifically puts the two in the same group, although they really are not exactly the same thing.

But I always be a little confuse about this.

[Agailius]

Just how fast does Kiritsugu's Time Alter make him go?

[forumghost]

Just how fast does Kiritsugu's Time Alter make him go?

I mean it's kinda there in the chant dude.

Double Accel = 2× Speed, etc

He's not casting a spell that makes him faster, he's casting a spell that makes time move faster/slower for him then for everyone else.

[You]

I mean it's kinda there in the chant dude.

Double Accel = 2× Speed, etc

He's not casting a spell that makes him faster, he's casting a spell that makes time move faster/slower for him then for everyone else.

This is true but it also does literally make him faster.

For example, when he fought Kayneth just then, Kiritsugu "sped up" his blood flow, haemoglobin metabolism, and muscle movement all at the same time. All that’s left is to use his quick reaction time to dodge the attack after he easily predicted the track the mercury whips would take. Kiritsugu is capable of accomplishing physical feats impossible for ordinary humans after he accelerated the time inside his body.

The biggest problem for this magecraft is the huge burden on the body.

The craft of time modification inevitably creates errors between the time within and without the bounded field. This error would immediately be corrected by natural forces when the bounded field is removed. That is, the "world’s own adjustment". Of course, this adjustment can only happen where "errors have occurred", which means inside Kiritsugu’s bounded field – his physical body. Adjustments have occurred in his flesh to get back in sync with the normal time flow.

[Comun]

Are 本物の悪魔 and 真性悪魔 different things?

Extra's Material seems to give some kind of distinction, so I always interpreted that the first case, is when a 受肉した悪魔 managed to get rid of his previous Designations, and that 真性悪魔 are the ones that could already manifest themselves autonomously since the beginning. And that's why the Church specifically puts the two in the same group, although they really are not exactly the same thing.

But I always be a little confuse about this.

The Extra Mats use the 真性悪魔 entry to talk about the concept of Devils in general. It's Hollow Ataraxia that goes to explain the different between the real and the fake.

聖堂教会が語る『受肉した魔』もこの例に当て嵌まる。
生物である前に『魔』として創造されたモノたちは、人間より高度な魔術を行使する。
魔術師（われわれ）の魔術回路は疑似神経にすぎない。人間としての神経の裏に作り上げた、後付 の能力だ。
だが―――『魔』には疑似神経などない。
彼らにとって、その生体機能全てが『魔』を呼び込む為の機能なのだから。
教会ではそれを『真性悪魔』と呼ぶのだそうだ。
人間の想念を被（かぶ）って『個体名』に成る偽物とは違う、主が遣わした、人が名付ける前からそうであった 本当の『悪魔』だと。

The incarnated magic the Holy Church talks about the is another example of this. [referring masses of magical energy with personalities]
Those who were magic before they were living beings can use magecraft on a much higher level than humans can.
The magic circuits we mages have are nothing more than fake nerves. An add-on ability we built behing our regular human nerves.
However, beings of magic don't have fake nerves.
That's because all of their bodily functions are about bring in magic.
The Holy Church calls those being True Devils, as far as I know.
Unlike the fakes who earned individual names by taking the form of human ideas, those is the real Devils who used to serve the Lord and was already and were already Devils even before they was named by humans.

Keypoint is the last line. The regular Devils are Sixth Imaginary Element creations who possess humans and attempt to incarnate in the process of granting someone's wish wrong, and the True Devils are literal fallen angels and I believe have never been not incarnate.

[fire_mountain_30]

Just how fast does Kiritsugu's Time Alter make him go?

If you want some direct wank, it makes him faster than magical lightning (dunno if it would be legitimate lightning speed like Atomic Gatorade though), since he can dodge mercury blob, which can supposedly react fast enough to protect kayneth against said magical lightning

[Tenshi]

The Extra Mats use the 真性悪魔 entry to talk about the concept of Devils in general. It's Hollow Ataraxia that goes to explain the different between the real and the fake.




Keypoint is the last line. The regular Devils are Sixth Imaginary Element creations who possess humans and attempt to incarnate in the process of granting someone's wish wrong, and the True Devils are literal fallen angels and I believe have never been not incarnate.

I see, that clarifies things a little more, thanks. I was not getting what the Extra Material said with HA explanations. DDD also gives an explanation very similar to Caren's one, however I didn't know if I could consider it.