Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Jesse1089]

I suppose in that case it's because Shinji didn't have his whole body reconfigured to open the gate to the other side and just had the actual Lesser Grail shoved into him, though I could be wrong. I still sometimes struggle with this.

So could it be that the lesser grail is actually Illya's heart and her body the vessel?


That would change my perspective because that means that Shinji is not the new lesser grail but the new vessel... although I still have a doubt as to why Kirei tells Rin that she will become the holy grail ...

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

That's my understanding of it, at least. That, or the body is optimized as the Grail Vessel with the heart as the core, because that was sort of the case with Sakura as the Black Grail, I think.

[Jesse1089]

That's my understanding of it, at least. That, or the body is optimized as the Grail Vessel with the heart as the core, because that was sort of the case with Sakura as the Black Grail, I think.

Wow...that's why the lesser grail sprouts from Shinji's body...

So in short Illya's heart is the lesser grail...her body is the vessel...the substitutes for Illya's body can be Rin, Sakura or even Shinji...although the latter inappropriately...

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Again, not completely sure about this, because Sakura as the Black Grail was molded over a decade and had pieces of the Grail from the 4th War implanted into her. She is definitely not like Shinji or probably even Rin, who were not prepared in such a way.

[Jesse1089]

Again, not completely sure about this, because Sakura as the Black Grail was molded over a decade and had pieces of the Grail from the 4th War implanted into her. She is definitely not like Shinji or probably even Rin, who were not prepared in such a way.

What confuses me a lot is that if Illya's heart is the lesser grail and this is called a vessel and at the same time the host of her heart is also called a vessel...
is like the vessel of the vessel? wtf!

[madarra]

What confuses me a lot is that if Illya's heart is the lesser grail and this is called a vessel and at the same time the host of her heart is also called a vessel...
is like the vessel of the vessel? wtf!

You do know what vessel means right or are you atributing some magical meaning to the word container, receptacle, vessel is just a word for something you put something else inside of. You put servant souls inside Illyas purple crystal tumor heart, and you put illya hearts in any random mage( yes vn says a Shinji is fine too)

Illyas heart is the engine and the random mage's magic circuits is the chassis. If they match, you get a good car, if they dont you get a vibrating cluncky piece of junk.

[NO U Sword]

What confuses me a lot is that if Illya's heart is the lesser grail and this is called a vessel and at the same time the host of her heart is also called a vessel...
is like the vessel of the vessel? wtf!

The Lesser Grail has always been a physical object. It is not until the 4th War that the Lesser Grail was incarnated as a homunculus.

The material books insinuate that the Lesser Grail remains a physical object, but it was melded into the homunculi via alchemy. This would be consistent with what happened, because Lesser Grails were "made" in the story, such as the case of Sakura and Shinji. You just need to implant the "pieces of a Lesser Grail" into another person.

As to why the Lesser Grail needs to be tied to a person/homunculus, it is not very clear. Probably Magic Circuits?

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So could it be that the lesser grail is actually Illya's heart and her body the vessel?


That would change my perspective because that means that Shinji is not the new lesser grail but the new vessel... although I still have a doubt as to why Kirei tells Rin that she will become the holy grail ...

The name or term is not important.

Whomever has the Grail/Grail shard implanted in him, is the Grail.

[Jesse1089]

The Lesser Grail has always been a physical object. It is not until the 4th War that the Lesser Grail was incarnated as a homunculus.

The material books insinuate that the Lesser Grail remains a physical object, but it was melded into the homunculi via alchemy. This would be consistent with what happened, because Lesser Grails were "made" in the story, such as the case of Sakura and Shinji. You just need to implant the "pieces of a Lesser Grail" into another person.

As to why the Lesser Grail needs to be tied to a person/homunculus, it is not very clear. Probably Magic Circuits?

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The name or term is not important.

Whomever has the Grail/Grail shard implanted in him, is the Grail.

So in the episode 23 during Rin & Shirou talk she says that the holy grail will break because it doesn't have a proper vessel... does she mean that the Grail (Shinji + Illya's heart) will break because the vessel (Shinji's body) is inadequate?

[NO U Sword]

Basically.

Iri and Illya were designed to contain all the mana generated by the dead Servants and initiate the ritual.

Proper functioning (thus not breaking) looks like this:


Shinji turning into the meat pile is basically "the reactor going critical".

[Laserman]

Unless there's something else with the same name that I'm missing, evocation is magecraft involving summoning spirits. Fiore from Fate/Apocrypha's mechanical arms were animated by the ghosts of her dead dogs, that's an example of it. The Department of Spiritual Evocation at the Clock Tower has mages that deal with ghosts, spirits, etc. in it. Like the leader of the department keeps ghosts inside the rings he wears. The department also collects catalysts to summon Heroic Spirits. In Apocrypha it's where Kairi went to get the piece of the Round Table that he used to summon Mordred.

Oh, I see that explains a lot, thanks.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

It's about OG Tsuki, not the Remake.

When did SHIKI escape from the basement? And did someone release him?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Oh, I see that explains a lot, thanks.

Actually, in Apo timelines, I think a Department of Summoning got spun off from or was established within Spiritual Evocation due to the numerous Subspecies Grail Wars and the many deaths that resulted. Kairi got his catalyst from the Lord of Summoning.

[Ideofago]

I think it was Kohaku. And I think it was the day Shiki met him.

[OnesFleetingGlory]

I think it was Kohaku. And I think it was the day Shiki met him.

I see. Thanks.

[Laserman]

Actually, in Apo timelines, I think a Department of Summoning got spun off from or was established within Spiritual Evocation due to the numerous Subspecies Grail Wars and the many deaths that resulted. Kairi got his catalyst from the Lord of Summoning.

The reason I asked was because of Fate/Zero though.

[Catcash0102]

Did Taiga know or ever curious about Kiritsugu’s wife Iri after he adopted Shirou?

[All fictions]

Actually, in Apo timelines, I think a Department of Summoning got spun off from or was established within Spiritual Evocation due to the numerous Subspecies Grail Wars and the many deaths that resulted. Kairi got his catalyst from the Lord of Summoning.

I don't think so since it exists in other timelines (FSF). IMO, it's probably like how Aoko said the faculty of Astronomy had divisions like Astrology, Planetology, and Divinity. Summoning is just one such division in Eulyphis.

[Byegod]

how does precense concealment work, outside of like EX

Is it like a 'perception filter' to use a term, or is it just 'hide good' or what

[Herod]

how does precense concealment work, outside of like EX

Is it like a 'perception filter' to use a term, or is it just 'hide good' or what

It sets the CD for the perception roll.

[Byegod]

I dont play dnd sooo..