Probably. We can summon Musashi regularly, who is from a Lostbelt. I think Arthur too? Why wouldn't it work in reverse?Originally Posted by Arete
Probably. We can summon Musashi regularly, who is from a Lostbelt. I think Arthur too? Why wouldn't it work in reverse?
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
Musashi seems like too frindge of a case, and isn't really part of PHH, which is why her records don't come back when she gets erased. The issue is that the Lostbelts shouldn't exist at that time, yet they're able to connect to the PHH throne which suggests that they do exist. If it was just the Lostbelt throne that'd be a different story, but Europa is explicitly a PHH servant.
My point is that if we can access Lostbelts thrones to pull Musashi, Skadi or Godjuna, there's no reason the Lostbelts can't do the same in reverse.
Even if you're talking about Servants that get summoned solely in story segments (via Mash's Shield or whatever other method), we still have Main interludes like the recent Imaginary Scramble where we have evidence of Lostbelt Skadi and Xiang Yu existing in normal Chaldea.
As for the Lostbelts not technically existing, well they don't exist now that they've been pruned. But since when has the throne cared about something like the proper progression of time? Hell, Jalter only existed as Gilles delusion and she still shows up in the story. Actually needing to exist doesn't seem like it's that much of a hurdle for the Throne.
Last edited by Mattias; November 20th, 2022 at 02:27 AM.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
The Muramasa stuff obviously isn't that odd. It's been clearly established the Lostbelts were around from before the arrival of the Bleaching upon our world (or well, the histories, at least).
Remember, from the Crypters perspective, their Lostbelts were just there when they arrived. They had no chance of being able to confirm whether or not the Bleaching came first, or the Fantasy Trees came first. And from here on out, sadly, we kinda of have to rely on speculation, because the exact process here is more of a clue as to what the Bleaching really is... In order to keep this post brief, I'll leave that out for now though. The Servants came with the Crypters (the main ones, that is: Anastasia, Sigurd, Lanling Wang, Ashwatthama, Caenis, Morgan), so why would they know any better? Regardless, even had they been there in the first place, it wouldn't matter. The histories of the Lostbelts are simulated with the tree inside of it from the beginning, as seen in LB6, for example.
And yes, it seems Europe was summoned way back in time, even (some thousand years ago in the Greek Lostbelt). As to why... perhaps it would be pertinent to ask why they could summon anything in the first place? The histories of the Lostbelts we see in F/GO aren't the usual Pruned Event. They are already Pruned Events that through the power of the Fantasy Trees, have been allowed to proceed to the present. Let's give an impossible hypothetical: had the Pruned Events continued as usual, without the Fantasy Trees, they wouldn't have been the same, because the Trees wouldn't have been there. So presumably they could summon things from PHH because that's the interface by which the Fantasy Trees operate from. They connect the Lostbelt with PHH. Well, that's my speculation, at least.
My simplified explanations are "Lostbelts summons from PHH because that's more legitimate" and "Lostbelt guys are summoned from Chaldea's own database rather from the Throne". And if I'm recalling Arthur's trial quest right, he wasn't summoned, he just walked in there on his own.
Feel free. Everything is supposed to drop on us soon.In order to keep this post brief, I'll leave that out for now though.
There's a very big difference between summoning figures that no longer exist, and summoning in a place that no longer exists. Just because one is true doesn't mean that the other is true. I don't dispute that we can summon figures that don't exist anymore/at that point. The throne is outside time an space. It's the locations not existing that is what the issue is.
I suppose it's more just an issue about what exactly the Crypters know or were told (speaking of the six outside of Wodime but mostly Kadoc). It was his Lostbelt that attacked Chaldea while it was still running, so he should've known that the earth wasn't bleached at that point, as it was attacking Chaldea that seemed to be required to bring about the bleaching. Yet he's surprised to learn that the bleaching comes before the trees.
I get they're doing it that way to help spell it out for the audience, but it's making him look like a huge idiot, as well as whoever wrote the note.
The Muramasa stuff isn't that odd. It's just more proof that the Lostbelts were around before the attack on chaldea.
Hmm, well I suppose we just have to go with that. Personally though it sounds like something that they just forgot about when writing that bit. It just seems that if they did become their own history, that they'd be able to summon heroes from their own history. Another question is how they can even summon servants when the Age of Gods doesn't seem to have ended, but that'd obviously get in the way of the story, so ignoring that is understandable.
As for whatever theory you're implying, I presume it has something to do with the stuff we learned in Traum? It does seem obvious at this point on what the 'foreign world' is. Feel free to mention it, whatever it is.
Wait, I thought Musashi was from a dead end world, but not a Lostbelt?
There's a lot I have to say, but keeping it short for now: The Bleaching that the Crypters are thinking about is different from the one Chaldea are thinking about. And of course the Crypters would think the Fantasy Trees caused the Bleaching, the Alien God outright says as much: 空想樹はこの惑星を初期化する。新たな神話を作り上げる。(The Fantasy Trees will reset this planet. They will create a new myth upon it.)
Last edited by Petrikow; November 22nd, 2022 at 08:12 PM.
Her mats directly say she's from a Lostbelt, for both versions of her.
EDIT:
Still it seems odd that Kadoc doesn't know about the order, unless Anastasia was keeping it a secret from him. The other Crypters are aware of the attack on Chaldea and when it was, so it feels like they'd come to realise that that's incompatible with their view that the world was bleached first unless they perhaps thought that Chaldea was the one place that wasn't bleached, but then there's no mention they think that way.
There's also every indication that Kadoc only knows of one bleaching in all chapters he appears in, including Traum, which is something you'd think he'd mention otherwise. Although he doesn't mention the conclusion he came to with the data he got in Traum, even though Douman says he's almost at the answer pursuing that train of thought.
Last edited by Arete; November 22nd, 2022 at 08:29 PM.
Hi.
I really liked FSN because every bs moment was answered/explained after in the same or in another route, so i had just to keep a paper with questions about these. But there is one moment which didnt get any answer:
In HF, when in Ryuudou Temple for the first time, how does Shirou realize Rule Breaker's identity and powers by looking at it?
As someone who was really invested in the story, i burst out laughing while reading this. At this point of the story, Shirou had no awareness of his "sword comprehension", his reaction should have been the same as in Fate when facing Rule Breaker for the first time. Later he couldnt even guess Zelretch's sword's abilities after projecting it, and Kanshou&Bakuya's special move against BSaber worked because of Archer's arm. Most of advanced weapons projected by Shirou in Fate and UBW had a projected behavior working by itself, surprising even Shirou himself. Although being able to copy almost any ability, Shirou can't really explain how those copied abilities work.
If that moment was erased from the VN, i could explain Rule Breaker's use against AM's Master in the ending because of Archer's Reality Marble flowing into Shirou, meaning Archer faced Rule Breaker while he was still Shirou in the 5th HGW.
(Rule Breaker acts as such wild card it took a serious mental gymnastic from me to fit it in the story)
???
The scene is
Very similar to his reaction in Fate route.The Servant is looking down at her Master with a mysterious dagger in hand.
"...!"
Pain lances through my head, accompanied by a sense of apprehension.
It's not that I'm scared of this scene.
That --
That dagger is ominous.
It seems Saber does not feel anything, but I can tell that the dagger has dreadful power.
Last edited by You; November 23rd, 2022 at 07:28 PM.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Is that sees/seems typo (at least, I presume it is. Doesn't make much sense for a dagger to be looking at anything) in the original?
You are right, his reaction is actually really similar in Fate.
In both routes, Shirou does feel danger from it. Shirou couldnt tell in Fate how the Rule Breaker works because he got stabbed really quickly, but it sounds fair Shirou would have come to a similar guess about the Rule Breaker if he had as much time to watch as he had in HF. Caster was hiding her NP for a reason after all. Saber wasnt rooted in HF, so there was no need to rush for a deflect in Shirou's style, a simple shout to warn was enough.
My starting assumption was wrong, so the rest of my argumentation in the previous post is null and void. Thank you for shaking a biased opinion.
by the way guys, since aruceid can create an infinite universe in her event storage, and emiya and iskander can create infinite sized reality marble, does that mean their power is infinite?
No.
why tho? Doesn't aruccied create an infinite universe with event storage?
No.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...028_101815.jpg
what is the context of this?
also why isn't emiya and iskander's power infinite if UBW contains infinite swords and iskander's np contains infinite desert and a sun?
Because Goku is stronger.
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