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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #148981
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman View Post
    Ugh, forget I even asked.
    It's based on this: https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/i...y-numbers.html

    But in Nasuverse, imaginary numbers more specifically refers to either "that which exist, but does not manifest" or "that which cannot manifest, but does so anyway" (paraphrased here so might be slightly off).
    It's what makes up the Far Side of the moon, it's what Sakura's magic is all about, and it's what Chaldea dives into during the LB chapters to get around the storm walls. More specifically, Chaldea enters Imaginary Number Space (PLEASE don't call this void space I swear to god), which as Comun said is effectively an alternate world, a (bunch of) pocket of space made up of imaginary numbers, wherein time flows differently and there's no native life and everything is in a state of like semi-quantum unobservability and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  2. #148982
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Isn't there life in that space and its just not recorded because its dangerous to traverse?
    Basically its like the Astral Plane but some individuals can tap into it. I believe it was mentioned it was used to preserve artifacts originally. But then FGO added other applications, kinda wondering why it would be such a niche subject at the Clock Tower, isn't their mantra that rare equals "lemme get my hand on it immediately"?

  3. #148983
    Do we know anything bout how dreams work in nasu? is lucid dreaming a form of magecraft in canon lol

  4. #148984
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    -Everyone's dreams are connected in some level, allowing succubi and incubi to move people from dream to dream (Len allowing Shiki to visit Arcueid's and Ciel's dreams in Kagetsu, Merlin sending Fujimaru to Moriarty's dream in his event). I'd guess that's what enables Alaya to exist.
    -Dreams are connected to the imaginary numbers and Lovecraftian gods, but we still don't know exactly how because the event that talks about it started yesterday.

  5. #148985
    Interesting, I wonder if lucid dreams would be considered a magecraft or not

  6. #148986
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Isn't that basically how Kyrie's psychic ability works?

  7. #148987
    Ive totally forgotten tbh, isnt that more astral projection?

    Im just curious as dreams have been a thing in nasu for a long while, and also lucid dreaming is known to science.

    Maybe its just some kinda weird ability like breathing and walking

  8. #148988
    Quote Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
    Isn't there life in that space and its just not recorded because its dangerous to traverse?
    Basically its like the Astral Plane but some individuals can tap into it. I believe it was mentioned it was used to preserve artifacts originally. But then FGO added other applications, kinda wondering why it would be such a niche subject at the Clock Tower, isn't their mantra that rare equals "lemme get my hand on it immediately"?
    I guess it depends more about what "pocket" you're in, since for example Tiamat is sealed inside INS, and in the current event there wasn't supposed to be any life in the area. Although, I think it was talking specifically about native life, so could still be right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kateikyo View Post
    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  9. #148989
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    So basically its a prison for really dangerous stuff, like a Hell of sorts. Its not the first time that it had underworld vibes.
    Also hmm, maybe those jokes about Lovecraft stuff and Sakura from that Back Alley Alliance parody actually had some connection if the current event connection fantasy gods and imaginary numbers.
    Through jokes, there is wisdom yet again. Or rather, why does Nasu keep such interesting lore hidden behind joke content for so long?

  10. #148990
    Since CCC I always understood the Imaginary Numbers as some sort of backyard or dumping site to the real numbers world.

    It's basically an unobservable place where all the unneeded/discarded possibilities are there without actually manifesting.

  11. #148991
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yokushi View Post
    Since CCC I always understood the Imaginary Numbers as some sort of backyard or dumping site to the real numbers world.

    It's basically an unobservable place where all the unneeded/discarded possibilities are there without actually manifesting.
    That makes me think back to some bad ends, particularly Femme Fatale (did Sakura basically make Rin like Rika from Higurashi by pulling a "world" where Tohsaka Rin and Tohsaka Sakura switched places?)and the one where Shirou enters the sbadow and walks for hours inside.
    That joke scene in Hollow with the diary and Medusa getting put in time out for that one joke scenario in AATM. They all look positively sinister in hindsight.
    And thinking back on it, I think the dive they have when entering IN space in FGO amd the weird grayscale like effect looks like when Sakura was playing pranks on Rin by sucking her in for the Sister Crisis scene in Hollow. So if the ability to mess with time (and reverse casuality if Summer 3's event with the printer isn't just hokey BS). Isn't that some pretty crazy applications?
    Making another infinitely expansive world where possibilities merge, where time flows differently, where you can trap even elder beings. Either Nasu has been intentionally underselling people born with this ability or you need monstrous magical energy and infinite time to get all the applications.
    Last edited by Altima of the Gates; November 14th, 2020 at 07:42 AM.

  12. #148992
    Well the Imaginary Numbers magecraft was always said to be a crazy good talent, it just seems a case of being rare and hard to learn.

  13. #148993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altima of the Gates View Post
    That makes me think back to some bad ends, particularly Femme Fatale (did Sakura basically make Rin like Rika from Higurashi by pulling a "world" where Tohsaka Rin and Tohsaka Sakura switched places?) [...]
    Is that what happens in that ending? I think we should take Sakura's words literally: she's "just" subjecting Rin to all the tortures she herself had been put through growing up (so basically, lots and lots of rape).
    My fanfics:
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  14. #148994
    Due to her being bonded with Avenger, isn't "make others experience all of her pain and trauma" one of her powers as Dark Sakura? Kinda like Verg Avesta but for her entire lifetime rather than just that battle.

  15. #148995
    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    It's based on this: https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/i...y-numbers.html

    But in Nasuverse, imaginary numbers more specifically refers to either "that which exist, but does not manifest" or "that which cannot manifest, but does so anyway" (paraphrased here so might be slightly off).
    It's what makes up the Far Side of the moon, it's what Sakura's magic is all about, and it's what Chaldea dives into during the LB chapters to get around the storm walls. More specifically, Chaldea enters Imaginary Number Space (PLEASE don't call this void space I swear to god), which as Comun said is effectively an alternate world, a (bunch of) pocket of space made up of imaginary numbers, wherein time flows differently and there's no native life and everything is in a state of like semi-quantum unobservability and so on.
    So it's a real world thing and something completely different in the Nasuverse. I always imagined IMS being like the dimension Obito made with his Sharingan, it just seemed similar to me. I mean, void space kind of makes sense from what you described?
    Last edited by Laserman; November 14th, 2020 at 11:46 AM.
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    HF felt like Nasu holding up a megaphone and screaming, "LOOK AT HOW SAD THIS IS! ISN'T IT SAD? YOU SHOULD FEEL SAD!"


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    > Einzbern

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    In short, Japan's syncretism BS striked again.




  16. #148996
    Quote Originally Posted by Laserman View Post
    So it's a real world thing and something completely different in the Nasuverse. I always imagined IMS being like the dimension Obito made with his Sharingan, it just seemed similar to me. I mean, void space kind of makes sense from what you described?
    The "real thing" that was used here is the idea that there exists "imaginary" counterparts to what we call "real". More than that you don't really need to dive into this to get the gist of what INS is.

    As for why "void space" is a bad translation:
    虚数 (kyosuu) means "imaginary number", as in, it's the very term used in mathematics.
    虚数空間 (kyosuu kuukan) then means "imaginary number" + "space".

    In other words, the "literal translation" here is exactly what it means. It's a space made up of imaginary numbers. Simple enough and gets the point across.

    What I assume FGO NA did here was take the 虚 out of 虚数 for who knows what reason, and just ignored the other kanji. 虚 on its own can mean "void", so then you get "void space", which you have to agree, does not exactly get the point across.
    Ignoring how 虚数 doesn't in any sense translate to "void" and how it's completely bonkers to just change a term like that, there's this side bit about how FGO NA completely overuses the term "void" for no practical reason, to the point where it just becomes confusing and convoluted. They already translate 空 to "void" as well, which is the kanji used in the context of you know, Ryougi's 3rd personality and the root (there's another term that got translated as void as well, but I forgot what it was). So now those two terms related to the root, translated as just "void", are now the EXACT SAME WORD as the term for Imaginary Number Space, which has NOTHING to do with the root. So in the end you just have a bunch of unrelated words, that are supposed to be different words entirely, just all (wrongly) translated as the same word because ????
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kateikyo View Post
    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  17. #148997
    The Long-Forgotten Sight Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    Can't believe Imaginary-Neesan's swimming around Void Space, hope she shows up this event.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  18. #148998
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yokushi View Post
    Well the Imaginary Numbers magecraft was always said to be a crazy good talent, it just seems a case of being rare and hard to learn.
    Yeah, it was always described as this amazing, we only didn't take it seriously because Tokiomi was the one saying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    now the EXACT SAME WORD as the term for Imaginary Number Space, which has NOTHING to do with the root. So in the end you just have a bunch of unrelated words, that are supposed to be different words entirely, just all (wrongly) translated as the same word because ????
    I wonder which of the two will be plot-resolving pun played into Daybit's name.
    Last edited by Comun; November 14th, 2020 at 02:16 PM.

  19. #148999
    Presia messe noce yor tes mea TwilightsCall's Avatar
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    To be fair, they also tell us that Sakura doesn't even have that attribute anymore after the Matous give her a new paint job
    The Fourth Order - Long form, Church-centric story. Follows the life of a young knight within the Church, and her personal battle against the heretical.
    My other fanfiction - Almost entirely short stories and oneshots, except for the above

  20. #149000
    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightsCall View Post
    To be fair, they also tell us that Sakura doesn't even have that attribute anymore after the Matous give her a new paint job
    She still uses imaginary numbers magecraft so it doesn't seem to be completely gone anyway.

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