Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I'd guess that's just figurative language, myself.

I don't think so. The way Dumas said it left little room for interpretation.

[fire_mountain_30]

It doesn't kill them but holds them back
That's why it's called the mystic eyes of procrastination

please tell me that this is just a joke

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Arc teleported, and Nrvnqsr came by plane

isnt Nero extremely heavy on account of his body structure though? i am surprised a plane could carry him

[You]

please tell me that this is just a joke

nope
that's the best translation for them
https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E9%81%B7%E5%BB%B6

[Cruor]

hey You, what would be your reasoning on why vampires are not included among the gensoushu. Vampires are definitely creatures of fantasy in the public eye. And Lamia as we've seen them are so its not a problem that they have human form.

[Cruor]

ok hidari is arguing that they, in fact, are, which im trying to rationalize, as afaik they are not immune to mysteries beneath them as would normally be the case with phantasmal beasts. But then I remembered Arc's story about how she should be immune to most artifacts except for certain South American weapons (which makes it not that she gained immunity to those other artifacts- that she outright has a mystery way higher then them). You think DAs or DAAs have some ability to reject lower mystery? I do remember Nrvnqsr also thinking Shiki's knife must be weird for an instant so perhaps they do have some immunity to a variety of things?

[Leftovers]

Maybe mystery rejection happens on an individual basis since for phantasmal races age=power

As in a pegasus doesn't reject mysteries simply because it's a pegasus but because it's an AoG mystery which further lived to become millennium rank and therefore nosells lesser mysteries

Besides the old vampires that we see get beaten either get dotstabbed or conceptual weapon'd

[You]

hey You, what would be your reasoning on why vampires are not included among the gensoushu. Vampires are definitely creatures of fantasy in the public eye. And Lamia as we've seen them are so its not a problem that they have human form.

"…… From the very beginning, the True Ancestors were an existence far separated from ours.
The Dead Apostles certainly are vampires that wield immense ability, but that ability is only an extension of human capacity.
Because they have managed to attain a long life, they are able to develop their abilities, and manage to refine it to those 'super' abilities as a result.
In other words, anyone can develop abilities equal to the vampires if they have a long time."

This probably.

Also phantasmal species are born. Dead Apostles are made.
https://i.imgur.com/gyey7s2.jpg

Anything with a higher mystery can nullify a lower mystery. And DA are known to have substantial mystery.

It's true the power of the Mage's Association surpass that of the Church.
But for the Dead Apostles, the mediators of the Church were the most difficult enemies to face.
It's a bit of a stretch, but the mages are the same type of existence as the Dead Apostles. If their understanding of the super natural was the same, the Dead Apostles who were at an higher point would simply have the upper hand. Then those who are threat to them are humans who speak the words of god.
So obviously, the Dead Apostles want the Church to be crushed by the Mages as soon as possible, but it wouldn't be that easy.

When it comes down to it, the question would be like "can an old DA bitchslap a gandr shot."
My bet is on yes.

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Maybe mystery rejection happens on an individual basis since for phantasmal races age=power

As in a pegasus doesn't reject mysteries simply because it's a pegasus but because it's an AoG mystery which further lived to become millennium rank and therefore nosells lesser mysteries

Besides the old vampires that we see get beaten either get dotstabbed or conceptual weapon'd

p much

A 4000 year old pegasus is going to have more mystery than a 100 year old pegasus.

[Mcjon01]

ok hidari is arguing that they, in fact, are, which im trying to rationalize, as afaik they are not immune to mysteries beneath them as would normally be the case with phantasmal beasts. But then I remembered Arc's story about how she should be immune to most artifacts except for certain South American weapons (which makes it not that she gained immunity to those other artifacts- that she outright has a mystery way higher then them). You think DAs or DAAs have some ability to reject lower mystery? I do remember Nrvnqsr also thinking Shiki's knife must be weird for an instant so perhaps they do have some immunity to a variety of things?

"I'm asking about the method you used. I'm resistant against stuff like Runes and Kabbalah, so those don't work on me. The only things I'm not resistant against is magic I've yet to experience, which is probably limited to the ancient Shinto in this country and the treasures in South America."

Runes and Kabbalah = old and busted
South America and Shinto = new hotness
You’re slipping Cruor I thought you were supposed to be one of the Tsuki pros
I know it’s fun to go off in the weeds trying to connect the dots but she flat out states it’s about experience in the same breath she brings it up lol

[Cruor]

I mean i mentioned that in the post

which makes it not that she gained immunity to those other artifacts

As I was more thinking about why vampires apparently don't have the mystery defense most phantasmal species have. and i didn't really care for looking up quotes as that had actually nothing to do with the original argument as it was about tas and not das but I thought it could be related without looking.

A 4000 year old pegasus is going to have more mystery than a 100 year old pegasus.

Yeah we were talking about that when he made that post, my argument was what do you think would have more resistence a hundred year old vamp or a new born pegasus though i guess no one would know. I figured the species itself has its own mystery to it, because of its nature.

But it is true that pegasus' are all AoG mysteries that are dragon level. That, and if an Elder Title can lose to Beo its kinda iffy as to how much resistance they actually get. At least that was my interpretation. But yeah if it had to do with folklore strength like eirei then uh why don't vampires kinda have that?

Also hrm that first quote. Yeah that kinda explains it.

[You]

yeah each species has its own mystery like you wouldn't expect a 100 year old pegasus to have the same mystery as a 100 year old zeus child bull.
But in terms of 100 year old vamp and new born pegasus in terms of mystery, i don't think there's a metric available you can use to compare the two.

[Cruor]

well that was the more extreme example compared to the Elder Title losing his boxing match with Beo to decide the sinking of Atlantis or whatever. but yeah I do agree.

[Leftovers]

Eh, Beo himself is a 2k year old mystery but he's still susceptible to punching.

Anyway my take on phantasmal race mystery is that individual age + mystery of the age from which the species originates + modifiers such as divinity constitute their magic/mystery resistance. If we consider the legend of the vampire as imagined by humanity the starting point then the mystery of it as a species is relatively newish?

[You]

And wolf ppl are supposed to be the prototype of vamps

[SpoonyViking]

And wolf ppl are supposed to be the prototype of vamps

Kiiiinda, but not really? Unless you're talking about a Nasuverse fact.

I don't think so. The way Dumas said it left little room for interpretation.

"[...] England's an island nation. Hard for the mystery to leak out when

you're isolated from other cultures by the sea

you're surrounded by water

."

[Vernic45]

Is there anyone on this forum, who posted anything from Extella material (translated or not)

If yes, and if it was a translation where can i find it on the forum?

[You]

Kiiiinda, but not really? Unless you're talking about a Nasuverse fact.

its what EMIYA says in Extra

[RoydGolden]

its what EMIYA says in Extra

Since when was EMIYA an expert on vamps and werewolves?

[Tobias]

He cooks ciel curry every once in a while. Don’t forget, he is the one who gave her the cloth shiki covers his eyes with*

*actual events may not have happened

[SpoonyViking]

its what EMIYA says in Extra

Hm, interesting!

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

So the Nasuverse is going with the real life "fact" that vampires and werewolves used to be one and the same?