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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #148241
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    I mean the Moon Cell does come with a 3D Printer Attached (it's what Velber used to make the copy of Titan Altera it sent to earth) So I don't see why BB couldn't print off a copy of Jinako in a Moon Cancer Servant Body.
    The theory being what, that BB printed out a Jinako and tossed her in the middle of the Lostbelt for the lulz, or that BB already knew that Ganesha was looking for someone to possess somehow and printed him out a Jinako body for the lulz?
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
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  2. #148242
    死徒 Dead Apostle
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Magic space camera can somehow edit its subjects. Because Nasu doesn't know how computers work.
    My impression was that it did the thing Terry Pratchett did in his book Making Money: if you have a sufficiently perfect simulation of a system, to the point that it being a perfect simulation is downright axiomatic, then altering the simulation should also alter the reality. As below, so above. I dunno if that's how it's actually supposed to work, but I like the idea.

    Really, though, it's just sci-fi magic. It's the Holy Grail wearing a trenchcoat and a hat.

  3. #148243
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    - CCC just ended. The main characters return to the outer moon to finish the final 2 chapters of Fate/EXTRA, while BB and Jinako stay behind. Jinako survives because she still has Karna's armor.
    - BB just found Jinako in the now empty inner moon space after everything and needed to take her out, so she mods Jinako into a decent Saint Graph and puts her on sale on the Throne of Gods.
    - Oo'oku just ended. Parvati just promised she'd provide Chaldea with a really good ally on the Indian Lostbelt, so she needs to follow-up on it by ordering her son to do the thing.
    - Ganesha assesses the situation in Yuga Kshehtra and easily realizes the pseudo-Servant host that BB is offering has the perfect personality for the job. Jackpot.

  4. #148244
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neveron View Post
    My impression was that it did the thing Terry Pratchett did in his book Making Money: if you have a sufficiently perfect simulation of a system, to the point that it being a perfect simulation is downright axiomatic, then altering the simulation should also alter the reality. As below, so above. I dunno if that's how it's actually supposed to work, but I like the idea.
    Yes it is.
    Kotomine:Though all-seeing, the Moon Cell is not a god. It obeys the laws of physics like everything else.
    : Such as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Phenomena that are not observed do not exist.
    : By the same token, all things that are seen must be seen.
    : Even things that are not generally considered to exist.
    : The Moon Cell is a very complete database. It records many "if's" as well.
    : With such operational power, the Moon Cell can both elucidate the past and provide foresight.
    Its mission was to observe, but when trying to observe there can be no “blind spots.”
    (Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle. The observer determines an event by observing it. What isn’t observed is not certain.)
    An observation device must be fair. If it is to observe, there must be nothing unseen. Thus, it required capabilities for knowing everything about the Earth.
    To record all things without bias, it needed performance greater than that of an observation device.
    And so, it had made a giant leap in evolution.
    It had enhanced its functions to the point where it went from making observations to surveilling, even gaining control over the administration of the planet.

    The greater its enhancements, the more complex its administration policy. It created many terminals and even made artificial intelligences to manage functions for each section. (These were later utilized for the NPCs and advanced AIs of the Holy Grail War.)
    However, on the other hand, Moon Cell was stubbornly opposed to loading artificial intelligence into itself.
    A true observer should not have a mind.
    If an observer has an intellect and knowledge, the meaning of things observed will be decided by the observer.
    For that reason, it kept to maintaining its absolute objectivity as an eye, doing so while always dismantling the emerging semblances of sapience that it had incorporated to administrate its functions.
    Also the moon cell can hack everything single computer on the planet instantly. So that's helpful for doing whatever you want.
    [1] – According to investigation, the processing power observed from the Moon Cell Automaton cannot be estimated. However, we can at least be certain that its memory capacities far surpasses that of all digital media on Earth combined.
    [2] – After the discovery made by the Western European Conglomerate, all the Internet inspection systems in the world fell into lament. The reason is hacking from the Moon Cell Automaton. Every system around the world formed a passage with the Moon Cell Automaton within 2 seconds, and a situation where anyone can log on to this path (as long as they can log on the net) was established. It shouldn’t be too far-flung to suppose that the Moon Cell Automaton, which completed this work in 2 seconds, harbours some kind of intelligence – or even a super-intelligence that humans can’t even fathom. It was proposed that the hacking itself was conducted through the static satellites managed by the Western European Conglomerate.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
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  5. #148245
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    I mean if we can get BB and some of the Sakura 5 from CCC event I feel like getting Jinako as a Moon Cancer isn't that much of a deal breaker (no matter how much I don't really like the choice). I wouldn't mind a clearer explanation though than what mats gave us.

  6. #148246
    Quote Originally Posted by neveron View Post
    My impression was that it did the thing Terry Pratchett did in his book Making Money: if you have a sufficiently perfect simulation of a system, to the point that it being a perfect simulation is downright axiomatic, then altering the simulation should also alter the reality. As below, so above. I dunno if that's how it's actually supposed to work, but I like the idea.

    Really, though, it's just sci-fi magic. It's the Holy Grail wearing a trenchcoat and a hat.
    Isnt most "scifi" in nasu just magic wearing a trenchcoat and hat? like most of it uses mana lol

  7. #148247
    Thinking crimson thoughts Holiday's Avatar
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    Why is God Hand only rank B? I know ranks don't always line up perfectly with performance, but the discrepancy between God Hand's rank and its actual power level seems especially large.

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Menwearpink's Avatar
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    It’s B because it deals with B rank things prob.

    i mean we have plenty of lower rank NPs that are really good. Gae Bolg, invisible air, Godhand, ect

  9. #148249
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holiday View Post
    Why is God Hand only rank B? I know ranks don't always line up perfectly with performance, but the discrepancy between God Hand's rank and its actual power level seems especially large.
    Because Heracles can take damage from attacks ranked above B.

  10. #148250
    Black King Inuhanyou's Avatar
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    Why do people assume archer emiya didnt exist in his own timeline. Seems obvious to me with throne of heroes pendant bullshit being the whole reason hes even summoned in the fsn timelines to begin with



  11. #148251
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menwearpink View Post
    It’s B because it deals with B rank things prob.

    i mean we have plenty of lower rank NPs that are really good. Gae Bolg, invisible air, Godhand, ect
    How did we get to the point of B being a "lower rank"

  12. #148252
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuhanyou View Post
    Why do people assume archer emiya didnt exist in his own timeline. Seems obvious to me with throne of heroes pendant bullshit being the whole reason hes even summoned in the fsn timelines to begin with
    It would be kind of stupid and headache-inducing, because he'd probably have seen himself ahead of time, and at some point would have realized that's who that guy was and that would have colored his 100% natural suffering experience. Throne existing out of time makes the pendant thing mostly okay.

    That said, the only way Emiya's goal of killing himself is possible is if he's actually summoned into that original timeline.

  13. #148253
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holiday View Post
    Why is God Hand only rank B? I know ranks don't always line up perfectly with performance, but the discrepancy between God Hand's rank and its actual power level seems especially large.
    Because there are presumably some heroes out there with damage nullification, immortality or resurrection abilities that don't have God Hand's loopholes or limitations. Those would presumably be A rank. Avalon's a good sort at EX rank, but it's not just an immortality effect, it also straight-up takes you to fairyland where you can't be hurt.

    Imagine a dude who just can't be hurt, full stop, like a Baldr who can't be killed by that christmas kissy plant. Authority-level ability, nothing short of a god could stroll up and take a swing and expect to hurt them.
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  14. #148254
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    How did we get to the point of B being a "lower rank"
    Jealous of people living in a world where anything lower than A is acceptable.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  15. #148255
    The Plesioth Hip Check of life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Because there are presumably some heroes out there with damage nullification, immortality or resurrection abilities that don't have God Hand's loopholes or limitations. Those would presumably be A rank. Avalon's a good sort at EX rank, but it's not just an immortality effect, it also straight-up takes you to fairyland where you can't be hurt.

    Imagine a dude who just can't be hurt, full stop, like a Baldr who can't be killed by that christmas kissy plant. Authority-level ability, nothing short of a god could stroll up and take a swing and expect to hurt them.
    TBH, even with that restriction, how many heroes carry around or have the capacity to make mistletoe spears?
    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
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  16. #148256
    6ix - The Void Clyton's Avatar
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    I think God Hand being B ranked is fair honestly when one takes into consideration the existing defensive NPs and their established ranks and compare their effects. I think people are just underrating B ranks in general considering C rank is usually denoted as the average rank and that people are used to seeing these high A Rank effects coming from your not-average heroes.

    Also, considering how Heracles' Labours are much more simplified when embodied as God Hand compared to King's Order, B Rank for God Hand seems reasonable.

    EDIT: A question of my own: Was it specifically mentioned (not heavily speculated) anywhere in the Nasuverse that Nero doesn't want to be a Rider (or at least that she can qualify for Rider)?
    Last edited by Clyton; Yesterday at 10:04 AM.

  17. #148257
    Bad News LeadDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    Because there are presumably some heroes out there with damage nullification, immortality or resurrection abilities that don't have God Hand's loopholes or limitations. Those would presumably be A rank. Avalon's a good sort at EX rank, but it's not just an immortality effect, it also straight-up takes you to fairyland where you can't be hurt.

    Imagine a dude who just can't be hurt, full stop, like a Baldr who can't be killed by that christmas kissy plant. Authority-level ability, nothing short of a god could stroll up and take a swing and expect to hurt them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apo Vol 1
    Rider's protection is not something that can be pierced by raw power. Something more is needed. It could be that one needed to use fire or lightning against him. It could be based on certain conditions; perhaps Rider was nigh invulnerable within a forest, or at night. There are innumerable Heroic Spirits with such legends.

    For example—though this is not an anecdote about a Heroic Spirit—the God of War Indra once swore to the dragon Vritra not to hurt it with any weapon made of wood, stone, or metal, dry or wet, nor attack it during the day or at night. Indra proceeded to defeat Vritra at twilight using, not wood or stone or metal, dry or wet, but a column of the ocean's foam.

    Complete deathlessness does not exist.

    They may be Heroic Spirits, but they can never go beyond the bounds of a human being. One who is capable of such things—an existence outside of common sense—cannot be summoned as a Servant in a Holy Grail War to begin with.
    It is the same for Saber; aside from attacks that exceed B-rank, there is also the weak point at his back where the dragon's blood did not touch him. Even the weakest of Servants can kill him by aiming there.

    What kind of immortality did Rider possess? Master or no... relying on brute strength to force the issue without first solving this riddle was the act of an imbecile.
    It's "possible" for someone like that to exist in theory I guess, but if they did then they'd be outside the bounds of humanity/common sense. An ability like that doesn't seem suitable for "just" an A rank Noble Phantasm, and also clashes with some themes of the setting imo.

    B's historically been the broken rank with the heavy-hitting early adopters like God Hand and Gae Bolg, but I think you can argue that C rank has challenged its throne in the modern day. D is still shamefully unrepresented though, justice for D ranks.

  18. #148258
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyton View Post
    I think God Hand being B ranked is fair honestly when one takes into consideration the existing defensive NPs and their established ranks and compare their effects. I think people are just underrating B ranks in general considering C rank is usually denoted as the average rank and that people are used to seeing these high A Rank effects coming from your not-average heroes.

    Also, considering how Heracles' Labours are much more simplified when embodied as God Hand compared to King's Order, B Rank for God Hand seems reasonable.

    EDIT: A question of my own: Was it specifically mentioned (not heavily speculated) anywhere in the Nasuverse that Nero doesn't want to be a Rider (or at least that she can qualify for Rider)?
    Well her Imperial Privilege gives her the Riding Skill, so it's definitely possible since she's a Saber with IP as well. Apart from that I'm not sure, since a brief search doesn't give much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unsourced TM Wiki "Bullshit"
    She feels it is the ultimate instrument, and that muses would bow before the sound it makes. While she is a skilled charioteer that "rivals the solar deity Sol", she feels that she would not be suitable for the Rider class because of her general dislike for them.
    And there's speculation that the Beast in Prototype is related to Nero (as in Nero would ride it) due to it being the Beast of Revelation and Nero's connections with that per the Bible. Not sure how much of it is actually said somewhere, so if anyone else knows about it, please do share.

  19. #148259
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyton View Post
    EDIT: A question of my own: Was it specifically mentioned (not heavily speculated) anywhere in the Nasuverse that Nero doesn't want to be a Rider (or at least that she can qualify for Rider)?
    The original /EXTRA has a joke I don't remember when, with Nero saying she doesn't like riding her chariot because it makes her ass hurt. The fans, knowing Nero was a literal Olympic athlete in chariot racing, assumed she was bullshitting an excuse not be a Rider because her Rider form would be Mother Harlot (Beasts weren't established back then).

    Later, Nero Vanilla and Caster's FGO mats repeat the joke verbatim, meaning Nero avoiding her chariot is not a throwaway line. She also gained a Beast-related Skill by switching from Knight to Cavalry class, adding fuel to idea that goes from Rider to Beast, much like Kama goes from Assassin to Beast.

  20. #148260
    I remember hearing that karna mats or one of them says it isnt in GoB vs the ambiguity of CCC

    Anyone got it?

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