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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #146081
    The Greatest Cool Reign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the god of world-0 View Post
    I still don't really understand the whole Karl/charlie thing
    Karl is the historical Charlemagne and Charlie is the fictional one, though he may have been real in an alternate timeline. It's one of those "we're being vague on purpose" things like with Holmes. Normally when you summon Charlemagne you'd get Karl with some aspects of Charlie like how most Servants are a mix of fiction and reality, but in Extella Link they're divided completely from each other.

    For however much it's worth Extella Link's flashback of Karl finding the Velber ruins shows him with Charlemagne's design so he really did look like that when he was young.

  2. #146082
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    Charlemagne is a well-documented historical figure. He is also prominently featured in the Matter of France and has a whole bunch of fanciful legends attributed to him and his paladins. The problem is that the two don't mix well. King Arthur or Heracles don't have any "historical" version to contrast with, but in the case of Charlemagne it's pretty obvious that we've got a "real" version, the historical figure with all his surviving documentation, and a "fake" version consisting of all the made-up stuff.

    Generally speaking, if someone wrote a biography about your life (Einhard's Vita Karoli Magni) then it's going to be somewhat demystified.

    Realizing this, the writers decided to just run with that whole idea and make the entire plot about the "fake" fighting the "real" version.

  3. #146083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    For however much it's worth Extella Link's flashback of Karl finding the Velber ruins shows him with Charlemagne's design so he really did look like that when he was young.
    Wait, but astolfo is there! Is he real? What about all the crazy magical shenanigans he was up to?


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  4. #146084
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six madarra's Avatar
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    That probably why the text is being vague and saying Chalie and Astolfo are memories of a lostbelt.

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    love warrior <3 world-0 the god of world-0's Avatar
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    Okay, I think I kinda got it now


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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Looking at the Velber image, is that the guy with the beard meant to be Velber 01 aka the Older brother and is the plant thing with the eye meant to be Velber 03 aka the younger sister?

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    There was definitely a real Astolfo since yeah he's there in the flashback, but it's hard to say how much of Servant Astolfo is historical and how much is fictional/maybe-alternate-timeline.

    Like how Servant Vlad is influenced by the stories of Dracula but wasn't really a vampire in history, Servant Astolfo is definitely a mix of real and fiction/alt timeline/whatever. We just don't know to what extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Looking at the Velber image, is that the guy with the beard meant to be Velber 01 aka the Older brother and is the plant thing with the eye meant to be Velber 03 aka the younger sister?
    Yeah

  8. #146088
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    There was definitely a real Astolfo since yeah he's there in the flashback, but it's hard to say how much of Servant Astolfo is historical and how much is fictional/maybe-alternate-timeline.

    Like how Servant Vlad is influenced by the stories of Dracula but wasn't really a vampire in history, Servant Astolfo is definitely a mix of real and fiction/alt timeline/whatever. We just don't know to what extent.

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    Yeah
    He does look like a cutie in picture.


    here is a list of my servant sheets(new and improved format for my servant sheets)

  9. #146089
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    Quote Originally Posted by the god of world-0 View Post
    Wait, but astolfo is there! Is he real? What about all the crazy magical shenanigans he was up to?
    That's the real Astolfo in the flashback who was simply an elite general of Karl and did nothing like the stories. His memories is now servant Astolfo's memories cuz he is fused with the fictional one, so it shows fictional Astolfo there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    but it's hard to say how much of Servant Astolfo is historical and how much is fictional/maybe-alternate-timeline.
    Real Astolfo did not do the Roland stuffs, was not a trap and he has no NPs. So I'd say only a tiny bit of him is left i.e the memory of finding Velber.
    Last edited by Lily Emilio; November 29th, 2019 at 03:35 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Real Astolfo did not do the Roland stuffs, was not a trap and he has no NPs. So I'd say only a tiny bit of him is left i.e the memory of finding Velber.
    Are you sure? He's desing looks the same, which would make him a trap.


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  11. #146091
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    Quote Originally Posted by the god of world-0 View Post
    Are you sure? He's desing looks the same, which would make him a trap.
    Considering both Karl and Charles were surprise when seeing how servant Astolfo looks likes as if it was the first time they ever saw him dressed like that, I'd say one shouldn't take the flashback illustrations at face value on how the characters looked like

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    Guess I can accept that


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Emilio View Post
    Real Astolfo did not do the Roland stuffs, was not a trap and he has no NPs. So I'd say only a tiny bit of him is left i.e the memory of finding Velber.
    That's the easy conclusion to make but Astolfo's catalyst in Apo was the bottle of Roland's sanity so it doesn't seem as clear cut as that.

    On another topic, is Gil's vault a physical thing somewhere in Iraq or is it like a pocket dimension?
    Last edited by Reign; November 29th, 2019 at 04:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    That's the easy conclusion to make but Astolfo's catalyst in Apo was the bottle of Roland's sanity so it doesn't seem as clear cut as that.
    If his NPs are retroactively added back to his history from fiction, then it's not far to assume catalysts are also added to history in similar manner, and mages had certain magic to detect and obtain them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the god of world-0 View Post
    Are you sure? He's desing looks the same, which would make him a trap.
    Because his memories is mixed with fiction, so that's what he remembered himself to look like. Like Lobo said, servant Astolfo is different from the ones Charles and Karl knew, because his very appearance is morphed by fiction, so obviously he cannot remember his original look anymore.


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    Quote Originally Posted by neveron View Post
    Charlemagne is a well-documented historical figure. He is also prominently featured in the Matter of France and has a whole bunch of fanciful legends attributed to him and his paladins. The problem is that the two don't mix well. King Arthur or Heracles don't have any "historical" version to contrast with, but in the case of Charlemagne it's pretty obvious that we've got a "real" version, the historical figure with all his surviving documentation, and a "fake" version consisting of all the made-up stuff.

    Generally speaking, if someone wrote a biography about your life (Einhard's Vita Karoli Magni) then it's going to be somewhat demystified.

    Realizing this, the writers decided to just run with that whole idea and make the entire plot about the "fake" fighting the "real" version.
    The problem lies with the fact that Charlemagne is literally the only time this comes up. It feels like the writers are ignoring their own rules for the sake of a more "interesting" story.
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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fire_mountain_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    The problem lies with the fact that Charlemagne is literally the only time this comes up. It feels like the writers are ignoring their own rules for the sake of a more "interesting" story.
    It beats ignoring the rules just for the sake of cool points

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    Question.

    Isnt Bazzet walking around with Angra's arm?

    Why doesnt the Association freak out at something like that being around?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It does mean that, but not literally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Literally none of this addresses my complaint. What we see in the story IS all there is of him. A footnote in a side material book saying "oh btw that's totally not his real self" is irrelevant to the way he's presented in the game.

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    Angra's arm? I think her new arm is just a magical prosthetic limb of some sort.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
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    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
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    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    The problem lies with the fact that Charlemagne is literally the only time this comes up. It feels like the writers are ignoring their own rules for the sake of a more "interesting" story.
    Probably because his case was the most difficult to rationalize in many other ways.

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    Also, how do magecraft and medical knowledge interact? Does the power/Mystery of healing magecrafft depend on your own personal knowledge of anatomy and disease or on society's as a whole?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Also, how do magecraft and medical knowledge interact? Does the power/Mystery of healing magecrafft depend on your own personal knowledge of anatomy and disease or on society's as a whole?
    Seems as though most healing magecraft
    Luckily, a few bedrooms were spared, and currently Hisau Maiya was resting in one of them. Although Irisviel had already performed healing magecraft on her, the Einzbern healing magecraft is an extremely large burden to the wounded after all. This is because it is adopted from alchemy and does not cause the injured body to regenerate, but use magecraft to create new tissue and use that for grafting.

    That was the only thing she could do for now. It wouldn’t matter if the patient is a homunculus, but since she was healing humans it would count as a major operation similar to an organ transplant in modern medicine.
    If the body has less and less mystery it would be harder and harder for it to heal itself using a magecraft method.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
    I recall this being referenced at one point. Does anyone know where I can find the Link scene in question? With the dialogue and all.
    So far I could only find the one where Charlie called Astolfo out after freeing him from Oraclization in cutscene [7] Traveling Knight Astolfo, but Karl didn't even interact with Astolfo when I tried to talk to Astolfo while bringing Karl and vice versa.

    The only moment that comes close to it is when Karl declared that there were no Holy Swords and Magical Beasts during his time, and the Twelve Paladins were his elite troops. Unless it's a case of lost in translation.
    Last edited by OnesFleetingGlory; November 30th, 2019 at 07:21 AM.

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