Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[ResidentSeagull]

So while we're at the topic I also have a question about Types.

Are Ultimate Ones created for that purpose by their respective planet, or are they already existing creatures that are then given that role by the planet once it finds them suitable? Or is this topic never really elaborated upon anywhere?

[Formless Creature]

From what I understand the Ultimate Ones are just the strongest being in a planet/astronomical object and essentially serve as its 'representative' in events such as Notes. This is why it's possible for there to be multiple candidates - if an Ultimate One was simply something a planet "could make", then Earth would already have one, I would assume.

I also wonder how many Ultimate Ones there actually are. There's one for the moon, and the Oort Cloud. Is there a Type-Sun? One for the moons of other planets? What about Pluto? Maybe Ceres? Type-Halley's Comet? Theia? Maybe Crimson Moon exists because the Moon is partly made out of Theia?

[Kirishima]

Is there a Type-Sun?

Spoiler:

Theia?

Spoiler:

[Formless Creature]

nyoo I don't like the TYPE-MOON version of Amaterasu

[Nanaya]

Rambling thoughts. Humanity is independent of the planet so they don't seem like a good fit for what is essentially the planets proxy. There should probably be some compatibility requirements given Arc and Alt are TA. Maybe it will turn out that part of the problem with creating a Type for Earth was that the prime species is so peculiar. They're weak, independent of the planet but better than any other species when it comes to killing other lifeforms. I find it interesting they talk about DA in relation to how they can't compete with humanity for primacy regardless of how much more powerful they are as individuals because of their fundamental shortcomings and that the Church is hell-bent on exterminating non-humans especially vampires. Maybe TA(And by extension DA) were an attempt to usurp that position and so you get the planets UO in worlds where humanity is weaker.

[fumei]

I like the idea of the human race as a collective being Type-Earth even if Arc's FGO profile basically confirms it'd be either her or Altrouge if they didn't both exist at once. It also makes Notes a secret Type vs Type fight which is kino.
maybe Olga will absorb the wishes of every human and become an Ultimate One, the real President of Earth

Well, at the end of the day Arc and Altrouge are a result of the planet "cheating" to get a TYPE/Ultimate One since we know it couldn't create one itself, so it needed outside help. I really do think that while those two for all intents and purposes now count as the role, the original lack of TYPE did stem from the "peculiarity of the prime species" as Nanaya put it, probably even before Humanity (the collective) took over.

[AmADo VII]

why don't Gaia just mass produce Yu Meiren.

[Mattias]

Because we can't have nice things

[Lily Emilio]

So while we're at the topic I also have a question about Types.

Are Ultimate Ones created for that purpose by their respective planet, or are they already existing creatures that are then given that role by the planet once it finds them suitable? Or is this topic never really elaborated upon anywhere?

LB7

The Ultimate One takes the form of the Prime Species at the time they are born, which is why Dinocueid in LB7 but humanoid in PHH.

I also wonder how many Ultimate Ones there actually are. There's one for the moon, and the Oort Cloud. Is there a Type-Sun? One for the moons of other planets? What about Pluto? Maybe Ceres? Type-Halley's Comet? Theia? Maybe Crimson Moon exists because the Moon is partly made out of Theia?

LB7

KukuORT in LB7 can be considered Archetype Mictlan, as representative of the asteroid, because asteroids are also a type of 星 (star) thus might have a brain.

[Dartz]

LB7

The Ultimate One takes the form of the Prime Species at the time they are born, which is why Dinocueid in LB7 but humanoid in PHH.

LB7

KukuORT in LB7 can be considered Archetype Mictlan, as representative of the asteroid, because asteroids are also a type of 星 (star) thus might have a brain.

LB7

Also, I found the scene in Japanese and I'm taking a look now. But it does seem like Archetype as a concept is something that has nothing to do with being lesser or greater than Type. It's an Earth-exclusive thing and it refers to the being holding the oldest and original memory of the planet. But it seems to be unrelated to the title of Ultimate One. Don't you agree?

Or maybe Nasu just changed the title, and it's now Archetype. Last time Type was used was in Fate/Extra IIRC.

[pinetree]

LB7

The Ultimate One takes the form of the Prime Species at the time they are born, which is why Dinocueid in LB7 but humanoid in PHH.

Spoiler:

Wow really? I always assumed Types were only a thing in planets in which there's only one prime being instead of multiple members of a prime species, hence Earth not having one.
That seems to go against this idea entirely.

[Formless Creature]

So you're telling me that on Saturn there's a bunch of cross-shaped people... That's... certainly something.

I really want a Nasu sci-fi project now. Like, a proper one, not just "it's Fate but there's a supercomputer on the moon". I want to see the weird stuff he comes up with.

[Petrikow]

Spoiler:

I wouldn't conflate Ultimate One and Archetype. There's nothing UO about Ixquic at all, in fact. She's pathetically weak and seems to have no real say over anything. That might be partially because of Malla, but the title doesn't really entail the same thing as UO.

[Formless Creature]

Spoiler:

Aw man, and here I got all excited for the spider people planet, the cross people planet, the shadow people planet, and the plant angel people planet

[madarra]

LB7

Also, I found the scene in Japanese and I'm taking a look now. But it does seem like Archetype as a concept is something that has nothing to do with being lesser or greater than Type. It's an Earth-exclusive thing and it refers to the being holding the oldest and original memory of the planet. But it seems to be unrelated to the title of Ultimate One. Don't you agree?

Or maybe Nasu just changed the title, and it's now Archetype. Last time Type was used was in Fate/Extra IIRC.

That just reminds me of the out of nowhere fact/implication from LB6 that Albion was 4.6 billion years old, Earth-age. Maybe thats why it all revolves around Britain.

[Light]

That just reminds me of the out of nowhere fact/implication from LB6 that Albion was 4.6 billion years old, Earth-age. Maybe thats why it all revolves around Britain.

And in lostbelt 7 when davinci talks about servants not having memories about the meteorites, and then correcting herself showing an image of melusine and saying that there may have been those who lived during the precambrian age

[aAlouda]

Do we have any Idea of how the fake Grail Wars in Apocrypha can work without greater grails gathering mana and summoning and supporting the servants?
Like even Rin struggles just maintaining a Servant without Grail support, let alone summon one.

Or is that just handwaved away?

[Reign]

If I remember correctly, after Darnic stole the Greater Grail in WW2 he basically leaked the schematics for it so everyone and their mother started making their own cheap knockoffs of it. The Subtype Grail Wars do have Grails, but they're not as strong as Fuyuki's.

[All fictions]

Case Files twice had people make fake Grails and the Americans managed to make one as well in FsF (albeit it took 70 years), so I imagine if you have the schematics and the resources, it is relatively "easy" to make one, but they end up of shoddy quality, so weak they can only support 5 Servants and frequently prone to exploding.

[aAlouda]

I am more confused how they can gather such large amounts of mana so quicky so regularly.

When the Fuyuki Holy Grail takes 60 years in top class leylines just to summon 7.