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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #150061
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle
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    Nu-TM is far more sensitive to Japanese cultural taboos. The Tokugawa event in FGO made sure not to offer any criticisms of the Tokugawa or paint them in a bad light, as compared to early works making agents of the Catholic Church heroes. They wouldn’t do that. If Buddha reappeared, he’d be a fully Buddhist depiction

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    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    ah yes, TM's well known sensitivity concerning religious figures

    if siegfried and sigurd are allowed to be seperate characters there is no reason they wouldn't just make the Tathagata and vishnu-buddha 2 seperate people lol
    That does make sense, especially since both religions have means to allow for it, and both are mutually exclusive just like Sigurd and Siegfried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sssgth View Post
    Nu-TM is far more sensitive to Japanese cultural taboos. The Tokugawa event in FGO made sure not to offer any criticisms of the Tokugawa or paint them in a bad light, as compared to early works making agents of the Catholic Church heroes. They wouldn’t do that. If Buddha reappeared, he’d be a fully Buddhist depiction
    Saver honestly covers that already. His depiction is pretty in line with Mahayana ideas about the Tathāgata, at least thus far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
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    Do we know when the Makiri became known as the Matou? Was that before they came to Japan or after? I'm just a lil' hazy on the whole name debacle there cause I heard Makiri used to be Zouken's given name before it became the family name or something?
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  4. #150064
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Do we know when the Makiri became known as the Matou? Was that before they came to Japan or after? I'm just a lil' hazy on the whole name debacle there cause I heard Makiri used to be Zouken's given name before it became the family name or something?
    He was Makiri Zolgen, the last true heir of the Zolgen Family from Kiev, but after he went to Japan, he reversed which was his first vs last name, and went native as Matou Zouken/Zouken Matou.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  5. #150065
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sssgth View Post
    as compared to early works making agents of the Catholic Church heroes. They wouldn’t do that. If Buddha reappeared, he’d be a fully Buddhist depiction
    Kirei is hardly a hero, Ciel is an explicit unbeliever and also not exactly heroic herself. And Saver had already appeared as a being distinct from "earthly" deities.

  6. #150066
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One forumghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    He was Makiri Zolgen, the last true heir of the Zolgen Family from Kiev, but after he went to Japan, he reversed which was his first vs last name, and went native as Matou Zouken/Zouken Matou.

    Here I thought he was just too Lazy to change his name around on his Immigration paperwork and everyone just assumed that "Makiri" was his family name.

  7. #150067
    Knight of Joestar SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    Here I thought he was just too Lazy to change his name around on his Immigration paperwork and everyone just assumed that "Makiri" was his family name.
    That too, I guess. I mean, who would he be hiding from? Witchcraft trials were so last century by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastedspider View Post
    Kirei is hardly a hero, Ciel is an explicit unbeliever and also not exactly heroic herself. And Saver had already appeared as a being distinct from "earthly" deities.
    And that makes Saver a rather Japanese depiction of the Tathāgata.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Really, all 3 of the romances in F/SN are 'for want of a nail' kind of situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    You mean because Shirou winds up falling for the first of the three that he Nailed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I speak for the majority of important people* *a category comprised entirely of myself

  8. #150068
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Jeanne and Georgios are heroes, Amakusa and Molay are villains, and Martha is comic relief

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blastedspider View Post
    Kirei is hardly a hero, Ciel is an explicit unbeliever and also not exactly heroic herself. And Saver had already appeared as a being distinct from "earthly" deities.
    Sure, but the Church itself is presented as a positive force that protects humanity, and in a relatively realistic manner compared to typical “anime Catholic Church” portrayals. F/ha even specifies that Caren’s training being abusive was an anomaly and not representative of the organization as a whole. Early Nasu was edgier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Jeanne and Georgios are heroes, Amakusa and Molay are villains, and Martha is comic relief
    Jeanne, Georgios, and Amakusa predated the rest, and were taken seriously in their contexts (or was meant to be in the case of St. George in Apocrypha, which was actually why he got cut). FGO turned Jeanne and Amakusa into joke characters too, and dropped George off the map until Christmas 6. It’s definitely something to do with the progression of time.

    Type-Moon has simply become more mainstream with time. Making the second-highest grossing mobile game in the world is a far different level than making a niche (but popular in that niche) visual novel about vampires. With that kind of mainstream attention comes a need to be more careful, which means portraying your own nation’s religions and culture in a more positive light, and potentially cutting back on positive portrayals of other nations’ religions and cultures. Simple as.

    For what it’s worth, any “positive depictions of Christianity by Type-Moon” fall somewhere between accident and edginess, though the billion Saber avatar tradcath accounts on Twitter might try to convince you otherwise.

  10. #150070
    Come on, Ciel whole backstory is that she was continuously killed by the church for a month just to test her immortality.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  11. #150071
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    He was Makiri Zolgen, the last true heir of the Zolgen Family from Kiev, but after he went to Japan, he reversed which was his first vs last name, and went native as Matou Zouken/Zouken Matou.

    Wait, Kiev? I had thought the Makiri were Russian, but given that Zolgen is about 300 year old, he's actually Ukrainian? Huh. The more you know...

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  12. #150072
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
    Wait, Kiev? I had thought the Makiri were Russian, but given that Zolgen is about 300 year old, he's actually Ukrainian? Huh. The more you know...
    Kiev was part of the Russian empire since 1667.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  13. #150073
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    zouken is about 500 years old. therefore if he was born in KIJEVAS he was born as a subject of the GRAND DVCHY OF LITHVANIA which he remains to this day
    じん


  14. #150074
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sssgth View Post
    Sure, but the Church itself is presented as a positive force that protects humanity, and in a relatively realistic manner compared to typical “anime Catholic Church” portrayals.
    And that's changed... how? The story doesn't focus much on threats they typically deal with but they still do appear in the same capacity as before, Hansa and Father Karabo being the most recent examples. They don't appear in F/GO often but it doesn't really deal with demons and vampires either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sssgth View Post
    Jeanne, Georgios, and Amakusa predated the rest, and were taken seriously in their contexts (or was meant to be in the case of St. George in Apocrypha, which was actually why he got cut)
    Most pre-existing or not characters are flanderized. Compare Douman from 5.5 and Douman trembling before Tamamo Cat, for example. Everything that happens in non-main chapters tends to be more light-hearted and sillier. As far as I can tell, it is true for gacha games in general, not just F/GO.
    Last edited by Blastedspider; May 7th, 2021 at 04:21 AM.

  15. #150075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    zouken is about 500 years old. therefore if he was born in KIJEVAS he was born as a subject of the GRAND DVCHY OF LITHVANIA which he remains to this day
    I thought he was still kind of normal human looking and fairly young back when the first HGW was... well, was.

    Is that just because he hadn't started sucking at reconstituting his body yet? I thought he didn't start being a cloud of bugs and eating people until after the Grail cockblocked him.
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    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow View Post
    Let Sakura say fuck and eat junkfood you weirdos.


  16. #150076
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    skilled magi can hang around for about 200 years and look fairly normal. there are various methods of doing this. araya is an example. alba a lesser case; he is about 60 but (in the novel, not the movie) uses a glamour to look like a 20 year old bishounen. go too far past 200 ish and your soul starts to rot. this is zouken's problem. it's nothing to do with the grail, he's just hung around for too long

    you can still drink milk a day or two after the use-by, but after two weeks it'll be pretty dire
    Last edited by Dullahan; May 7th, 2021 at 04:24 AM.
    じん


  17. #150077
    Put your emptiness to melody, your awful heart to song. Prix with a Silent X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    skilled magi can hang around for about 200 years and look fairly normal. araya is a case of that. go too far past that and the soul starts to rot. you can still drink milk a day or two after the use-by, but after two weeks it'll be pretty dire
    May I introduce you to lactose-free milk. Lasts like three weeks longer than regular milk.

    - - - Updated - - -

    More seriously, thank you for the explanation. Though I thought Araya was like from InuYasha times... Or is he just from like pre-Western contact?
    Imagine that the world is made out of love. Now imagine that it isn’t.

    Imagine a story where everything goes wrong, where everyone has their back against the wall, where everyone is in pain and acting selfishly because if they don’t, they’ll die.
    Imagine a story, not of good against evil, but of need against need against need, where everyone is at cross-purposes and everyone is to blame.



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    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow View Post
    Let Sakura say fuck and eat junkfood you weirdos.


  18. #150078
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    this was rendered ambiguous in the movie because the director chose to set araya's flashback on a sengoku-era battlefield. there is no specific indication of when/where he is from in the book, or if he's even japanese. he is "over 200 years old" which puts his birthdate in the 1700s somewhere.
    じん


  19. #150079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    this was rendered ambiguous in the movie because the director chose to set araya's flashback on a sengoku-era battlefield. there is no specific indication of when/where he is from in the book, or if he's even japanese. he is "over 200 years old" which puts his birthdate in the 1700s somewhere.

    Doesn't his name kind of indicate he's Japanese, or no? Isn't there some kind of extra material somewhere suggesting that Touko and Araya bonded over being "fellow countrymen" at the Clock Tower, or was that specifically for the movie material?
    Imagine that the world is made out of love. Now imagine that it isn’t.

    Imagine a story where everything goes wrong, where everyone has their back against the wall, where everyone is in pain and acting selfishly because if they don’t, they’ll die.
    Imagine a story, not of good against evil, but of need against need against need, where everyone is at cross-purposes and everyone is to blame.



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    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow View Post
    Let Sakura say fuck and eat junkfood you weirdos.


  20. #150080
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    kokutou identifies him as "looking japanese" when he looks at the photograph from london. that in company with a japanese name (which is a legal requirement for naturalised japanese citizens of any background) suggests that he was certainly presenting as japanese in the 1980s, but that doesn't necessarily indicate anything about where he was before that. (certainly if you wanted to engage, say, in large property development projects in central tokyo, you would find being a japanese citizen helpful.)

    he is referred to as a former taimitsu [esoteric tendai sect] priest. taimitsu is usually used in connection with the esoteric practices taken up (largely from shingon) after Tendai was established in japan, but the tendai sect as a whole has its roots on mount t'ien-tai in china and branches all over east asia. being born during the period of sakoku makes it more probable that he was japanese originally, but there is no inherent obstacle to putting his birthplace in china, korea, mongolia etc if you want to
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