Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Nanaya]

Ryougi's are not an incest family but nanayas are.
If ryougi are gonna mix with its gonna be either fujou or asakami and asakami is fallen (for good genes they logically should).. so if you take out a piece of puzzle from what is supposed to be generational gene mutation. Things crumble.

I don't see the connection really. I could be completely stupid so ELI5 please.
We know the Nanaya and Ryougi(and maybe the others) seemingly interbred somewhat(a long time ago). The Ryougi also have distant relatives and in general don't seem to mind marrying normies into the bloodline so I don't see any issue regarding them.
We're talking about Shiki Nanaya right? This started since the suggestion is he may not be born because he's a mutation. As you mentioned, the Nanaya are the ones committed to multigenerational incest so what exactly do the other three clans have to do with the Nanaya who are off on their own conducting a eugenics program since ancient times? Not only are they solidly passing along their mutant gene for psychic abilities but they evolved an inversion impulse and abnormal bodies presumably ideal for killing monsters on top of it. If you ignore the many hideous children produced it seems to be working wonders for mutations. Isn't that indicative that Shiki should still have plenty of opportunity for being birthed?
Edit/ I know when we think of mutation we think genetically but is Shiki a further mutation because of how he was born or because of how the power he was born with further altered to be able to see death too? I assumed the latter.

[Byegod]

They don't specify how it worked but it did state that the Ryougi had a technique to prevent someone with 『　』 from being stillborn. They also awakened her afterwards. Going by their relatives it could be related to magecraft but the clan themselves were all about their ESP. They wanted a shell that could make perfect use of their abilities/personalities which let them acquire the most number of skills. Asagami were an ESP family too though they did mention how Fujino's power was something of a mixture between magecraft and ESP because she was tampered with. Nanaya were still an ESP lineage that possessed Jōgan though they were more about their physical abilities. It was only the Fujou that got delineated as a magecraft lineage in KnK so I'm at a loss on why Nanaya Shiki wouldn't be born here.

maybe its just the name?

Two shiki in japan with MEODP?

[Nanaya]

maybe its just the name?

Two shiki in japan with MEODP?

Too many Shiki in this world.
Said Nasu never.

[Byegod]

Too many Shiki in this world.
Said Nasu never.

Doesnt count if there split personalities /taps head

[Light]

was it said somewhere that dead apostle ancestors in fate worlds where rank 7, because i could have sworn that i read that somewhere but i dont remember right know, and the wiki doesn't have a citation so i dont trust it.

[Comun]

Case Files ranks Gransurg, Einnashe, and Rita as Superior Dead Apostles. Zepia I can't remember if he was a Dead Apostle or another brand of hematophage, but probably the latter. And then A Piece of Blue Glass Moon established Superior Dead Apostles as VII.

[Light]

thanks for the information

[Petrikow]

hematophage

What in the world.

I like it.

[HattoriKei]

Zepia I can't remember if he was a Dead Apostle or another brand of hematophage, but probably the latter.

Zepia is also called a Superior DA.

[Dartz]

Not sure if still spoilers, but from Mahoyo:

Spoiler:

How was Soujuurou even able to harm Beo? I thought him being a 3000 year old mystery meant he couldn't be harmed by anything lesser. How can a normal dude even hurt him without even being magically enhanced?
Do we still have no explanation for that?

[Dullahan]

psychological damage

[Takashi]

Not sure if still spoilers, but from Mahoyo:

Spoiler:

How was Soujuurou even able to harm Beo? I thought him being a 3000 year old mystery meant he couldn't be harmed by anything lesser. How can a normal dude even hurt him without even being magically enhanced?
Do we still have no explanation for that?

If you go back to fate stay night, there was a scene where shirou commented that kirei was able to hurt assaisin without magecraft.
From the very beginning, mystery only ever reduced Physical damage . It didn't make them complete immune from physical damage without mystery or magecraft.

[Daiki]

Spoiler:

It's more Beo being dumb rushing straight at him like a moron, honestly. Although Soujuurou's strong by average human standards (supposedly thanks to growing apart from civilization), he broke both arms in the process and the elemental would wreak his ass afterwards.

But as said above, psychological breakdown (becoming aware of his lack of invulnerability) and thus learning fear - becoming "useless" (imperfect) according to Touko.

If you think about it, his ego was pretty up there after traveling all over the world (doing all kind of crazy stuff with Touko, including making a DAA run away), being immune to magecraft, etc... And then he gets his heart damaged by a puny human with no special power.

[Rafflesiac]

I always figured

Spoiler:

[Soujuurou had mystery from living in the woods for so long.]

[Daiki]

Nah, he just really doesn't like dogs.

[Nanaya]

Case Files ranks Gransurg, Einnashe, and Rita as Superior Dead Apostles. Zepia I can't remember if he was a Dead Apostle or another brand of hematophage, but probably the latter. And then A Piece of Blue Glass Moon established Superior Dead Apostles as VII.

Spoiler:

Considering that Rank VII are a calamity that taints the land by existing and in order to attain the rank in Tsuki you are supposed to be recognized by a DAA and granted additional abilities... would they even be comparable to a superior dead apostle of Fate? Mashu's generic DA line does mention how powerful and unique these vampires are so I wouldn't be surprised if the title isn't directly equivalent.

[Takashi]

Spoiler:

It's more Beo being dumb rushing straight at him like a moron, honestly. Although Soujuurou's strong by average human standards (supposedly thanks to growing apart from civilization), he broke both arms in the process and the elemental would wreak his ass afterwards.

But as said above, psychological breakdown (becoming aware of his lack of invulnerability) and thus learning fear - becoming "useless" (imperfect) according to Touko.

If you think about it, his ego was pretty up there after traveling all over the world (doing all kind of crazy stuff with Touko, including making a DAA run away), being immune to magecraft, etc... And then he gets his heart damaged by a puny human with no special power.

That's the reason he got hit by souji. But not why the attack was able to actually harm if mystery supposedly makes them immune to physical damage.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't see the connection really. I could be completely stupid so ELI5 please.
We know the Nanaya and Ryougi(and maybe the others) seemingly interbred somewhat(a long time ago). The Ryougi also have distant relatives and in general don't seem to mind marrying normies into the bloodline so I don't see any issue regarding them.
We're talking about Shiki Nanaya right? This started since the suggestion is he may not be born because he's a mutation. As you mentioned, the Nanaya are the ones committed to multigenerational incest so what exactly do the other three clans have to do with the Nanaya who are off on their own conducting a eugenics program since ancient times? Not only are they solidly passing along their mutant gene for psychic abilities but they evolved an inversion impulse and abnormal bodies presumably ideal for killing monsters on top of it. If you ignore the many hideous children produced it seems to be working wonders for mutations. Isn't that indicative that Shiki should still have plenty of opportunity for being birthed?
Edit/ I know when we think of mutation we think genetically but is Shiki a further mutation because of how he was born or because of how the power he was born with further altered to be able to see death too? I assumed the latter.

It's because shiki's mutation is caused due to mixing with ryougi clan not due to multi generational incest.
Its only now they would be allowing normie (even then mikiya family is mage line) . That shouldn't be case in ancient times.

- - - Updated - - -

It's just if you take a piece of puzzle of what is supposed to be one and only masterpiece. I believe chances are preety low. It is just like how nasu said about MEODP awakening. The chances are low. While shiki has ryougi genes in them

[You]

Not sure if still spoilers, but from Mahoyo:

Spoiler:

How was Soujuurou even able to harm Beo? I thought him being a 3000 year old mystery meant he couldn't be harmed by anything lesser. How can a normal dude even hurt him without even being magically enhanced?
Do we still have no explanation for that?

Yes, the explanation is buy mahoyo 2

Spoiler:

No. The truth is that he did not understand what his opponent was doing since the very beginning.

Indeed, when Soujuurou dove into his arms, he felt a small impact.

Perhaps that is the exact blow that damaged his heart.

"Ha."

That is ridiculous. Such a strike will not stop a werewolf's heart.

In the end, he cannot figure out an answer no matter how hard he ponders.

[Clown]

So in the past magecraft and true magic were considered to be similar but they weren't literally the same thing right? Since iirc you need a connection to the root for true magic and it would be kind of odd if every mage had that back then. If so, does this mean there's some difference between past magecraft and true magic beyond just whether or not science can replicate it?

[Nanaya]

It's because shiki's mutation is caused due to mixing with ryougi clan not due to multi generational incest.

I think you could remove the other three clans from the picture entirely and still produce Shiki Nanaya since they're the result of a singular blending. The Fujou situation shouldn't impact his birth even if you wanted to assert he possessed some recessive ryougi genes from long ago in the past though.

Its only now they would be allowing normie (even then mikiya family is mage line) . That shouldn't be case in ancient times.

It's just to show that despite their clan wishes they aren't being completely inhuman about it and they aren't limiting their marriage options to just the four demon hunter clans. So the change in the Fujou situation shouldn't be a big deal for Ryougi. There seemed like there may have been other clans of psychics that weren't designated as demon hunters and if they're ok with mage or other old families then the sky is the limit. They even have their own distant relatives in that case.